Monday, July 19, 2010

Thanks to Miss Gwen, who makes sense.

Finally. A straight answer from an honest liberal, Miss Gwen. I am relieved to the point of giddiness. All I ever asked was that a liberal hang with me long enough to get to the bottom of at least one liberal belief, so that I could make logical sense of it. 
I am dead serious when I say that I am grateful for Gwen. She has integrity of belief. I vehemently disagree with her beliefs, but at least they are consistent!
Gwen supports “gay marriage,” so I asked her if she would also condone two brothers (or siblings) getting married, and if not, why not? It didn’t seem logical to me that one could support the former but reject the latter.
Ultimately, after several attempts, here was Gwen’s answer:
[I]n a futile attempt to "answer your question", do I condone brother/sister marriages?: sure. If two siblings really, really want to get married and enjoy a happy relationship-then go right ahead.
I honestly expected a different answer. I assumed that Gwen would be against incestuous marriages, even between consenting adult siblings. But I give her full credit for being consistent in her views, for her answer is exactly what should logically follow from her liberal positions on sex and marriage.
I've been so frustrated because I couldn’t find a liberal who could answer my questions logically. Well, Gwen’s answer makes sense. It is logical. I believe it to be wrong and immoral, but at least I understand it!
So, thank you, thank you, thank you, Gwen. You are indeed a consistent thinker and a person of integrity, even though I could not disagree with your belief system more.


  1. Great! Glad someone was honest and made sense.

  2. Wow. I missed a lot yesterday. ;)

  3. TW, you summed it up perfectly. That's exactly right!!

  4. this is the conversation i was having too, and it finally ended with the guy saying that yes, as long as they were both consenting, brothers and sisters and cousins should be allowed to marry, even if they have a much higher chance of producing deformities.
    shocking, but at least consistent.

  5. Right on, Gwen!! Thanks for hangin' with us!

  6. OMG! You are a judgmental BITCH! The ONLY person who can judge is God. If anybody wants to marry anybody, then that is THEIR cross to bear, NOT YOURS! It is NONE of your business what ANYBODY does.

  7. Kristen, welcome! Nice to meet you. I have no idea why you are so angry.

    When you say it is "NONE of your business what ANYBODY does" do you mean that only in reference to sexuality? Does the state have a right to be involved in marriages at all?

    I am also guessing from your comment that you are not against sibling marriages. I would say that makes you a consistent liberal; how does it make me a bitch to say that you and Gwen have integrity? I'm dead serious... I have no idea why you are offended. Did I misrepresent Gwen?

    Also, your statement says that "the ONLY person who can judge is God." Can the state judge whether or not it is wrong to rape, murder, or steal? If so, why? You said ONLY God can judge. So should we get rid of courts and the judiciary? Can you make distinctions so that we can understand more clearly what you believe? Because I am guessing you don't actually think ALL judging by humans is wrong.

    I just want to you to clarify.

    Also, many conservatives think that liberals base their beliefs on their "feelings" and emotions. Your comment sort of confirms that suspicion. Wouldn't you prefer to use reason to debate the issues? Then others can decide for themselves who makes sense and what is true.

    God bless!

  8. So, I had a totally different comment here, but I feel like I need to defend you now.

    I have not read anything that I see as judgmental - you are clear in your beliefs and say when you disagree. There is nothing judgmental about that! I don't always agree with you - but as I've said before, I respect the way you present your point of view and your respect of the opposing point of view. Your request that 'we liberals' answer your questions clearly and concisely is legitimate.

  9. Ya know, I believe there was a time when calling someone a "bitch" would have been deemed judgmental. Thank goodness that's not true anymore, eh, Kristen?

    But just for the record, the Bible reference in which everyone bases their belief on non-judgmentalism (if I may coin a phrase) is the one in which Jesus instructs that you can't remove a splinter from one man's eye without first removing the beam in your own. Boiled down, instead of meaning "don't judge" it means "judge righteously."

  10. It's sad that some people cannot leave a civil comment.

  11. Wow. Kristen, that was one giant leap backwards for open dialogue and communication.

    Do you not think calling someone a “bitch” is being “judgmental” by your own standards? Can you not think of better ways to defend your cause? Odd. I understand this is an emotional issue, but it is one that can be discussed in a civil manner. Let us leave the name-calling where it belongs: the playground.

  12. Oh dear! I am sorry to see this turn of conversation. Heated and civil comments are one thing-but name calling really doesn't get us anywhere.

  13. Gwen, thank you. I appreciate how you have engaged the dialogue, and you seem like a nice person, too. :)

  14. Gwen and Rebecca, way to go for being super cool chicks. I like when people who disagree with each others' viewpoints can engage in respectful and intelligent dialogue.

    Sadly, as we've seen, this is not the case with everyone.

    And Leila, I heart you!!

  15. Okay, a little late to the party here, but Kristen, that was way out of line. Name calling is not acceptable, and I agree with Ann, leave it on the play ground.
    Leila, you are awesome!

  16. I wonder if it ever bothers anyone - liberal or conservative - when they find the logical conclusion of their beliefs, and they are less than desirable (to put it mildly).

    Like, when gay marriage leads to incestuous marriage and then to birth defects.

    Or legalization of contraception which lead to the legalization of abortion which is leading to declining Industrialized Country fertility rates and which may lead to the collapse of industrialised countries due to a lack of population.

    Sincerely, GenghisKhan44


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