Friday, February 18, 2011

How Planned Parenthood talks to your teen

Warning: This post contains sexually explicit language and offensive material. I apologize in advance. 

I love teenagers. I am currently the mother of four teenagers (and four future teenagers) whose moral and spiritual formation is my highest priority.

As a Catholic, I believe it is a parent's sacred responsibility to give children truthful and complete information on sex and sexuality, carefully considering the individual latency stage of each child. As a mother, I speak with reverence for the beautiful gift of human sexuality, always mindful of the children's inherent dignity and innocence. That said, I have never refused to answer any of the many question posed to me by my children.

Planned Parenthood approaches the education of children a bit differently. To help illustrate the difference in philosophy, let's look at Planned Parenthood's outreach to our children, via their website for teens called TeenWire.

Once there, you will find a plethora of options:

Our Bodies
Sex and Masturbation
Ask the Experts
Health Info & Services

Believe it or not, the following is some of the milder stuff on the site:

From What is Virginity?

Who's a virgin, and who’s not?

Most people would say that a virgin is someone who's never had sex — and by "sex," they often mean penetration of the vagina by the penis. This dictionary definition sounds simple enough, but it leaves a whole bunch of people out of the picture. There are a lot of straight people who don’t think of themselves as virgins because they’ve had lots of other kinds of sex. And then there are all the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people who may never have penile vaginal sex, but who hardly think of themselves as virgins. For all these folks, sex and virginity aren’t so rigidly defined.

Many people define sex in broader terms. For some, "sex" means vaginal, oral, or anal sex, while for others, it could mean mutual masturbation, manual stimulation (“hand job”), dry humping, or using sex toys to penetrate the vagina or anus. Lots of people feel that they "lose it" the first time they share an intimate sexual experience with someone else — not simply the first time penetration happens.

Some also believe that people have to give consent to lose their virginity — that virgins who are raped, for example, do not lose their virginity.

Do girls masturbate?
The myth is that girls don’t masturbate.  Some people think that it's O.K. for guys to masturbate or have other kinds of sex, but that girls shouldn't. Unfortunately, our society is often more comfortable with men expressing their sexuality than with women, so many girls are taught not to masturbate — or not to admit to doing it. But the truth is, girls and women do masturbate, and there's no reason they shouldn't. In fact, one study showed that women who masturbate have higher self-esteem than those who don't.

From All About LGBTQ (FYI, that is "lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or questioning")

What’s a sexual orientation?

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and straight are sexual orientations. All these sexual orientations are perfectly normal. Scientists are not yet sure exactly what causes someone to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, or straight, but recent research shows that there are biological factors in place before birth that influence people's sexual orientation.

Our sexual orientation is about who we’re attracted to sexually. A woman who is sexually attracted to other women often calls herself a lesbian. A man who is sexually attracted to other men often calls himself gay. People who are attracted to both women and men often called themselves bisexual. And people who are attracted to people of the other sex often call themselves straight.

Why do we say "often"? Because some people don't think these labels describe them accurately. Some people don't like the idea of labels at all!

From Your Vulva, Vagina, and Breasts:

What do breasts have to do with sex?

Breasts can give you a lot of sexual pleasure. They are basically "freebies," since you can't get pregnant or catch sexually transmitted infection by going to "second base." Most girls' breasts and nipples are sensitive to stroking, touching, and kissing. Looking at, feeling, and kissing breasts turns on a lot of people. Some partners are clumsy in the way they handle breasts and need to be told or shown how to do it in a pleasing way. Some women, of course, aren't crazy about having their breasts touched, and this is normal, too.

From What is Sex?

What is oral sex?

Oral sex is using one's mouth to stimulate a partner's genitals.

Just as with any kind of sex, everybody is different — with various likes and dislikes, so communication is the key. In order to make sex more satisfying, it's important to be clear with yourself and your partner about what kinds of sex you want to do and don't want to do.
Learning how to give oral sex is usually done by letting each other know what feels good and what doesn't — so both partners can learn what’s pleasurable.

Although there is no chance for pregnancy to happen from oral sex, unprotected oral sex puts both partners at risk for a number of sexually transmitted infections, whether they are giving or receiving genital stimulation. Although the risks of infection are generally quite a bit lower with unprotected oral sex than they are with unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse, using a barrier during oral sex can further decrease those risks. For safer oral sex, use a condom to cover the penis, or a Sheer Glyde dam, cut-open condom, or plastic wrap to cover the vulva or anus.

{deep, cleansing breath...}

There are links to other (more adult-oriented) sites and sources for teens to explore, and there are lots of creepy pictures of gay and straight teens in various romantic/sexual poses, including a shot of a girl putting her hand down her pink polka-dotted panties to masturbate.

Yes, this is the same Planned Parenthood that comes into your public schools and talks authoritatively to your children about responsible sex. They are the "experts" after all.

(By the way, if you want to know what "the experts" told a teen about how to facilitate anal sex, you'll just have to go see for yourself. I can only imagine what I would find if I had the time or the stomach to look through all the kids' questions.)

Okay, I think that's enough for now. That's about all the "non-judgmental education" I can take.

The only part of this post that doesn't make me queasy?

The U.S. House of Representatives voted today to defund Planned Parenthood! 

We are one step closer to ensuring that not a dime of our taxes goes to this stalwart of the Culture of Death.

Next step? Call your U.S. Senators and ask them to do the same.

And pray.

{The conversation continues here.}


  1. I Did not click on any Of those links. This post was so disturbing. Except the end... woohoooo!

  2. "They are basically 'freebies'."


  3. How sad, scary and outrageous. I am happy that the House voted to defund PP, though. That's a win any day!

  4. What's scary is that I used to buy into all of this (most of it anyway), and it took me on paths I would never want to go down again and hope I can help other young women before they make some of the worst mistakes of their lives.

  5. I am so sickened by them. The more I learn about them, the more disgusted I get. I'm soo glad that the house passed that amendment...and pray that it passes the senate as well.
    This is outrageous and they need to be stopped!

  6. I am so glad I had not eaten breakfast yet when I read this post!!!!!!!!!!! I am SO THANKFULL about the wonderful news about the decision of the US Government defunding PP!!! BECAUSE whatever the US Governement does/not do the Canadian Government takes note of and it GREATLY influences our politics!!!
    Thankyou Lord for the conversion of Abby Johnson as part of her book was read out loud during the debate in the House.
    Theresa in Alberta

  7. Leila - I discovered TeenWire when I was still practically a teen (20 years old). And even THEN was disgusted and upset and arguing their points. THIS is what they call educating? This is what they call HEALTH? SCREAM!!!! Okay. Breathe. Thanks for sharing what they have already published... I really don't think many parents know.

  8. Ugh! Hess peop seriously make me sick.

    I graduated from high school 10 years ago and I remember hearing them back then. I don't recal them being too graphic at the time and I'm sure their website wasn't what it is now but I'm sure they planted a lot of horrible seeds in the minds of us youngsters. What I remember most was them pushing "safe sex" by showing is graphic pictures of what thus different STDs looked like and pushing birth control (which I unfortunately at the time thought was the right thing to do).

    I was talking to my middle sister the other day about PP and the sex trafficking thing. She of course was appaled and told me something I didn't realize happened to her. When she was barely 20 she got pregnant. She was in cosmetology school at the time. She told a friend she thought she was pregnant so her friend took her to PP for a pregnancy free pregnancy test. She said PP was the first place that popped into her mind because she remembered them from high school. Of course the test was positive and my sister began to cry. Immediately the clinic worker began shoving materials about abortion at her and told her they could "take care of this problem today." My sister,PTL, told the woman no, that that wasn't an option. The lady then said to her, "Oh, you say that now, but you'll be back. Once reality sets in, they always come back."

    Fortunately my sister never went back and I have a beautiful 6 year old nephew.

    It makes me wonder how many young girls have gone into their clinics and been persuaded like this by someone who works there when they really didn't want the abortion. I can imagine that if my sister flinched for even a second this woman would have taken the opportunity to jump all over it with all kinds of lies.

  9. Ugh, this is disgusting. PP makes me want to throw up.

  10. I am just grateful that my children discovered Jason and Crystalina Evert - even before I did - so when I mentioned seeing them on PBS - they told me who they were!

  11. Too angry to say much. The kids in my state are begging for more sex ed because the comprehensive sex ed for the last I don't know how many years has failed (high STI rates) so now they are arguing that it wasn't "comprehensive" enough. AAAHHHH!

  12. Karen you're so lucky your sister knew ahead of time what she was (wasn't) going to do. PP PREYS on young women.

    As disgusting as Teenwire is, we need to keep in mind that PP doesn't just being their "non-judgmental" sex education in the teen years. They want to get into schools in KINDERGARTEN. I beg you all to be aware of this when getting involved in your children's education.

    PP uses a 3-pronged approach in public schools:

    1. Plant a seed as young as FIVE years old, to get children thinking about sex and being comfortable with the idea of it and talking about it.

    2. Get children (and yes, I mean children) comfortable with having sex and trusting PP to take care of all their birth control needs.

    3. Hand out faulty contraception and be the "solution" for these children when their contraception fails. I.e.: ready to provide an abortion.

    I just did a radio interview on this very topic. The host argued with me, saying, "They're not trying to get kids to HAVE sex, they're trying to get kids to be COMFORTABLE with sex."

    I responded, "Why should we be COMFORTABLE with casual sex???" Not to you really think you're going to get a 15 year old boy comfortable with sex, and then he's not going to have it?

  13. Just another example of how when the human person is reduced to a thing, our bodies become manipulated, depersonalized, objects.

    Sad. This is what the culture of death and a culture that does not value the dignity of the human person looks like. There is no sacredness, mystery and transcendence left.

    Yuck. Seriously, who wants to live in this culture?

  14. Is is the language which offends you?
    Is it the way PP makes sex (in all it's forms) seem okay?
    Or are you simply against masturbation, oral sex and homosexuals?

    I get this stuff might be graphic for a pre-teen and perhaps we don't need to teach teens how to perform anal sex (Yikes! I am almost 40 & have never done that!) but I am not disgusted by sexuality or sex acts that most consenting teens & adults do all the time without the tsk tsks out of you.

    I masturbate & have since a young age. My husband and I have oral and manual sex as well as the "makin' babies" kind. (And we have some babies to prove it.) No problem there with us. We are not used shells. We have not lost our dignity and respect for each other. We're still very much in love.

    Oh, and we have been doing these things since I was 17 and he was 19.Sorry if our sex disgusts all of you, but then again... why are you thinking about it?

    PS - comfortable with sex and comfortable with casual sex are different topics.

  15. When you are married and having sex you call it marital sex. When you are 15 and having sex you call it CASUAL sex. So if these materials are presented to teens to make them comfortable with sex it means CASUAL sex. Therefore, PP promotes casual sex to children.

  16. Thanks for clarifying Olya. Exactly.

  17. Anonymous, Catholics love sex! Otherwise we wouldn't have so may kids. :) We don't think sex is disgusting. We do think that ALL sexual activity should take place within a marital context, and that certain sex acts are not appropriate because they violate the purposes of sex (unitive and procreative).

    Catholics have "sex manuals," too. :) See Holy Sex! by Greg Popcak. And, of course, "Theology of the Body" by John Paul II will blow your mind.

  18. JoAnna,
    I wish there was a "Like" button for your post.

  19. Actually, to most people, "casual sex" refers to sex between non-committed people with no plans to commit outside of the encounter (or brief stint of encounters.)

    Commitment equals a romantic relationship of varying degrees, usually monogamous. It does not have to equal marriage.

    15 or not, if the sex takes place between two people in a long-standing relationship, it is not "casual."

  20. Anonymous, most of us here have done sex the Planned Parenthood way, and then we were introduced to the Catholic way (God's design... there is actually a theology of the human body). I can promise you, the Catholic way faaaaaar surpasses the other way, in every aspect. I would never claim that you don't love your husband, because I am sure you do. I am willing to bet however, that sex with your husband would be infinitely better if you studied Theology of the Body and lived your sexuality that way. I have taught the Faith for years, and without exception, people are blown away by the breathtaking beauty of sex as it was designed.

    I wouldn't go back for anything in the world, and neither would my husband.

    So, please, please, disavow yourself of the notion that Catholics are anti-sex. We think sex is so great, it's actually a sacrament.

  21. Leila,
    I would love to hear how you would answer these questions :). (I've been trying to figure out how to write this question since this morning without sounding snarky or 'smart mouthed', and I've decided the only way to do it is to say: This question isn't meant to be snarky or smart mouthed. While I'm not a parent, I found myself wondering how I would answer these questions if I was.

  22. Anonymous, one more thing: The thing that disgusts me about Planned Parenthood and the way they discuss sex is not the "language" per se.
    It's the fact that there is no reverence, no transcendency, nothing but a base, crude, purely "common" view of sex presented... What the PP culture does is profane sex. In other words, it takes something exalted and sacred and it makes it common and cheap. People are so much more precious to God than the way they are viewed by PP.

    Another way to look at it: Catholics treat a Renoir like a Renoir, but Planned Parenthood takes the Renoir and uses it as lining for the birdcage.

    And until you've lived both ways, you can't say that I'm wrong, right? ;)

  23. Rebecca, good question! I have had to answer them for my kids, and I do it with the facts, but with only the facts they are asking about. And, I couch it all in the context of marital love (they know the harms that come from sex outside of marriage), and the beauty of Theology of the Body (which they have been taught). So, when they ask a question, I can give the answer clearly... and they already have the moral context down pat.

    It has worked so beautifully.... But teens respond to truth because our souls were made to respond to it. It's been absolutely amazing to watch! :)

  24. Rebecca, there are also programs out there that counter all the damage that Planned Parenthood does. Jason Evert and his wife Crystalina do amazing work in public schools as well as parochial. You can google his name.

    I have also taught from the Theology of the Body for Teens program, which is fabulous, and which is about to be implemented in my diocese on a widespread basis.

    I also am in training to teach our engaged couples in the Diocese of Phoenix. As of last January, every couple getting married in the Church has to not only take our "God's Plan for a Joy-Filled Marriage" program (Christopher West), but also a FULL course of Natural Family Planning. The response to these classes has been overwhelmingly positive. Which is very heartening, considering that over 80% of the engaged couples are already having sex, and most live together.

    When the truth is presented, people (teens and adults) hear it resonate in their hearts.

  25. Anon, do you contend that Planned Parenthood is against "casual sex" for teens?


    Anon, this Planned Parenthood brochure (which has been handed out in some Girl Scout functions) talks about how young people can have hot sex even when they are HIV positive. And they don't restrict it committed sex. They say it's a guide for "young people" who are "are married, in a relationship with one or more partners, as well as those who are single, dating, or just want to have sex."

    Emphasis mine.

    Do you think Planned Parenthood doesn't want to promote casual sex among teens?

  27. I am appalled by your religion masquerading as concern for teens. Stopping funding for PP is a dreadful thing to wish for. I don't think you fully realise the implications of what you demand.

    My quote from the open letter to the House of Representatives says it all:

    To the members of the House of Representatives who voted for the Pence Amendment to H.R. 1:

    How could you?

    How could you betray millions of women — and men, and teens — who rely on Planned Parenthood for basic health care?

    How could you condemn countless women in this country to undiagnosed cancer, unintended pregnancies, and untreated illnesses?

    Your vote was not only against those who seek care at Planned Parenthood health centers, but against every one of us who has ever sought care there, and against every one of us who knows that when we are healthy, when we are in charge of our lives, we thrive.

    It was a vote against me.

    Well said! By far the majority of the work done by PP has nothing to do with abortion, and abortion specifically is not currently publicly funded. By all means propmote improvements in how sex education is handled, but focus on that rather than condemning millions of young people to ignorance. You may well be able to provide excellent sex education to your children, but what about all those who cannot?
    A very sad day for most of us.

  28. Actually, Simian, it is not a sad day for most of us here in America. It is a good and blessed day. The myriad crisis pregnancy centers around the nation provide true care for women. STD treatment, screenings, prenatal care, and it is free to those who need it. The centers also care for the women for months and even years after their crisis is past. There are many doctors and clinics elsewhere which provide services to the poor. St. Vincent de Paul here in Phoenix has an entire dental and medical clinic, which is beautiful and clean and loving, all for the poor to access for FREE.

    We don't need to be funding Planned Parenthood with our tax dollars, which is all about abortion.

    I mean this in all sincerity, Simian: You seem like a very caring person, but you don't know the first thing about Planned Parenthood, aside from the PR image they want to show you. Read Abby Johnson's Unplanned. She ran a PP for years, and dedicated almost a decade of her life pushing their talking points. Please go to Live Action and see what PP does behind the scenes in their clinics. It is all very seedy, very sad, and very harmful to women, teens and children.

  29. From “How can drugs and alcohol affect my decisions about sex?”
    Having sex is a big decision that requires careful thought. Adding drugs or alcohol to the mix can cloud people's judgment. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, nearly one-third of young adults have reported that they've "done more" sexually under the influence of alcohol and drugs than they planned while sober. If you're thinking about having sex, it's important to think about it and discuss it with your partner while sober.
    Mixing sex with alcohol or other drugs also increases the chances of unintended pregnancy and exposure to sexually transmitted infections. If you have sex when you are drunk or high, you are much less likely to be thinking clearly enough to use condoms, or use them correctly.

    From “Are most people my age having sex?”
    It may seem as though everyone your age is having sex. This can make you feel that you should, too. But the truth is that only about half of high school students have ever had intercourse and the average age when people start having sex is about age 17. Even once they start having sex, most teens don't have sex frequently.
    How do you feel about these reasons for having sex?
    • I feel like the only “virgin” in my group of friends.
    • I want to just “get it over with.”
    • My partner will break up with me if I don’t have sex.
    • Having sex will make me popular.
    • I’ll feel more mature if I have sex.
    • I want to get back at my parents.
    If you think these are good reasons to have sex, you're not ready.

    From “What do I want from our relationship?”
    People who care about and trust each other become intimate — close. But sex is just one part of a whole relationship. It’s just one way to be intimate.
    How about the other aspects of your relationship?
    • Do you treat each other as equals?
    • Do you trust each other?
    • Are you honest with each other?
    • Do you respect each other’s needs and feelings?
    • Do you care about each other?
    • Do you share similar interests and values?
    • Do you have fun together?
    • Do you both accept responsibility for what you do?
    • Do you both want to have sex at this time?
    If these things are true about your relationship, you may be ready to have sex.

  30. From “If I decide to have sex, are there any guidelines?”
    1. Both people should want to have sex.
    2. Never pressure someone into having sex.
    3. Be honest about your sexual feelings.
    4. Make sure sex is pleasurable for both people.
    5. Use birth control if you don't want an unintended pregnancy, and protect yourself from STDs.
    6. Be clear with each other about what you want to do and don't want to do.
    When to have sex is a personal choice. We usually make better decisions when we think through the possible benefits and the risks. It’s helpful to talk things through with someone you trust — a parent, a friend, a professional counselor, or someone else who cares about you and what will be good for you.
    A good sex life is one that keeps in balance with everything you’re about — your health, values, education and career goals, relationships with other people, and your feelings about yourself.

    From “Can two people have a good relationship without having sex?”
    Sex is not the only way people let each other know they care. People demonstrate love by being there for each other, solving problems together, sharing hard times as well as good times, helping each other grow, and being patient with each other.
    This is true for people of all ages. Young people have a lot of good reasons to postpone or go without sex. So do people of all ages. We all have friends we love but do not sexually desire. Sometimes, we may sexually desire someone but do not feel ready to have sex. And sex often becomes less important for people because of illness, medication, or other life circumstances. People in these situations rely on non-sexual intimacy to keep their relationships meaningful and enjoyable.
    Deciding whether and when to have sex requires a lot of thought from you and your partner. It can be difficult to communicate about differences in expectations about sex. But when it comes to relationships, everyone has the right to set boundaries and have those boundaries respected. If you don't feel comfortable engaging in oral, anal, or vaginal sex with your partner, you shouldn't be pressured into it.

    From “Is it a good idea to talk with my parents about sex?”
    When it comes to discussing sex, parents can react in many different ways. Some can be misleading, angry, defensive, and clueless. Some can be supportive, compassionate, and informed. And some are too embarrassed to say anything at all. Often, they want to get the whole thing over with in One Big Talk — or they don't want to talk about it at all.
    But in fact, research shows that ongoing dialogue fosters closeness between parents and kids, and decreases the risk of teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections.
    Most often, ongoing communication feels good — and is good for you, too.

  31. Is Planned Parenthood perfect? Of course not. Nowhere near perfect, in fact.

    But I think that they have a lot of very good programs in place. I am very disappointed that instead of reforming what is an otherwise good program, people feel that it should be shut down entirely.

    Simian said it well.

  32. HMU, I think you are trying to illustrate that PP is "responsible" when it comes to teens and sex. However, do you expect them to say they should have sex against their will? Or cut ties with their parents? Of course they won't. They either a) have a shred of human decency (which I believe many PP employees do) or b) aren't going to make themselves out to be total crazies on a public website, especially getting hundreds of millions of our tax dollars.

    How does what you've reprinted here negate the stuff I posted?


  33. HMU, many other clinics (which PP and the abortion lobby have tried to shut down) do what PP does, minus the abortions and sex trafficking and teen exploitation.

  34. Simian and HMU, if people (especially the rich liberals in Hollywood, New York, etc.) find that Planned Parenthood is so valuable, let them fund it. It can be privately funded, just like all the crisis pregnancy centers, which do great work based on volunteers and donations alone.

    Why should it die if the left wants it to stay alive?

  35. Oh, Leila. Your point about the Renoir nearly made me cry. I've experienced sex in the worst ways and in the best, and I can tell you, there's no comparison. I no longer walk around feeling terrified that if I fumble around or am clumsy or put on weight I'll be dropped like a bad habit. I know my husband loves me and he shows me that in the proper context.

    About the PP website...gag. This really got me: "It's too bad that so many people are ashamed of masturbating. But with all the myths out there, it’s understandable. More than half of people who masturbate have unnecessary feelings of guilt and shame about it. If you’re one of those people, try to let go of the bad feelings you have about it. Talk about your feelings with someone you can trust. Guilt and shame can lead to difficulties in a person's sense of self-esteem and in a person's relationships with other people. And no one needs that."

    Oh yes, self-esteem is the highest goal. I would so love my daughter to put herself in moral sin as long as she feels okay about it.

    I hate how they are so condescending of our beliefs. It's outrageous. They are spouting out a crock of SH#T to the children of America while painting us as idiotic, tyrannical zealots. I've seen both sides. I've lived both ways. And let me tell you, all that sexual freedom comes with a huge, heaping side of misery. Misery that permeates your life everywhere, misery that lingers for years, misery that damages relationships that ought to be whole, intact and beautiful. Planned Parenthood and the current liberal agenda is nothing short of horrible. They are destroying people's lives.

    Thanks for all you do, Leila.

  36. Calah, thank you. I think maybe only those of us who have lived both sides can truly understand the filth that PP peddles.

    Simian said...
    I am appalled by your religion masquerading as concern for teens. Stopping funding for PP is a dreadful thing to wish for. I don't think you fully realise the implications of what you demand.

    Simian, help me understand. You are an atheist, and you previously told me (as have other atheists) that morality is determined by a society, not by objective truth. Well, this American society has determined that Planned Parenthood is a slimy abortion organization and is not deserving of our tax money. This is where we are currently "evolved" to, morally speaking. How can you have it both ways, saying it's up to the society to determine what is right and wrong, but then when we do, you condemn it as some religious farce?

  37. As someone who comes from a very secular non-religious background, I can say from my stand point that as a kid and young adult, the PP way never sat right with me and my mother even suggested self stimulation and it never felt o.k. or normal. As a Catholic, I understand now that I wasn't just being uptight and there is something off about it. Why would I feel wrong about it even when secular society says it's "normal" and "healthy"? But it did seem wrong and I didn't really understand why.

  38. Suburban mom, exactly. You felt the truth of natural law. My husband was the same way. Raised completely secular, in a non-Christian home, he was told by his dad that sometimes it would be okay to use women for pleasure. He never, ever felt right about that. He had no reason not to go with that advice, but his conscience told him it was wrong. Natural law. Actual grace.

    God is good. We are all born with a sense of objective right and wrong, although sometimes we are very good at extinguishing those promptings.

    I remember I had a college friend who was raised to believe that sex was for marriage. In our "Catholic" college she fell away from that. Later, after graduation, she had sex one weekend with a guy that she really liked, and who was very kind and romantic (to get sex). He dumped her immediately, and she was CRUSHED. A few months later, she told me that she was not ever going to feel guilty about one night stands or casual sex again. I was pretty horrified, even though I was no saint. I knew that her guilt was a sign for her that she had done something against her human dignity. But the more secular she became, she addressed her guilt not by turning back to virtue and God, but by throwing off all morality and living for pleasure alone. Today she is completely secular.

    So sad.

  39. I do not think this has been mentioned, but no abortions are paid for by taxpayers, I feel that referring it to a couture of death is a bit insulting, since they have saved many from STDs. Now everyone has their own views about premarital sex, but in the case that it occurs, where are the million of women supposed to go to get life saving testing and medicine, when their is so much shame, that they might not want to go to their own doctors, that their parent can talk to. Of course the parents should know too, but isn't it better for someone to secretly get helped the publicly get really sick. Many women and girls would rather get sick then have their parents find out.

  40. And also, pergency centers are very biased.

  41. Sorry, wrong spelling, pregnancy center

  42. Anonymous (can you give us a pseudonym to help us identify you?),

    1) The money they get from taxpayers goes into the same pot, and frees up money for abortion services, money they wouldn't otherwise have. It's like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    2) If PP's agenda is so valuable, then the abortion supporters around the country and world should fund them privately. Hollywood loves to advocate for abortion, so have them support PP with donations. The Warren Buffet (and his wife's) foundation are specifically about abortion advocacy, so let their billions fund it.

    3) I am involved with crisis pregnancy centers, homes for pregnant women with no place to go, St. Vincent de Paul, all who help poor women for free, every single day of the year. Planned Parenthood is not the only game in town, by a longshot.

    4) I was a PP client as a teen, and I went there so my parents wouldn't find out what I was up to. I am sickened by that now, that so-called adults would facilitate my destructive behavior. Very sad.

  43. Anon, biased how? Against abortion? Yes, they are definitely against the killing of the unborn.

    Do you think that PP is not biased?

  44. Au contraire, Anonymous - it is incorrect to say that no abortions are paid for by taxpayers. Please read the following article:

    It is happening through Planned Parenthood overseas (since President Obama took office) and in the state of Pennsylvania......

  45. Pregnancy centers are differently biased against abortions, like you said. I think that all of those kind of centers should be a middle ground. What about rape victims? You do not have to get an abortion at PP. You could walk in pregnant, and they give all the options, including parenthood. So a devote Catholic can go in just to get support during her pregnancy, not for an abortion. Versus pregnancy center tells you, you must choose parenthood or adoption.

    And in the case that a women wants an abortion, and is adamant on it, it is better to be in a safe place, then in an ally.

    And also, about the centers, what about birth control pills. I know PP also sells birth control for a cheaper price, do PCC's?

    Tax payer money also go to things I do not want to support, like war, yet I still pay in since I want other services to still be available. I would love to not have to pay war tax.

    ~Chabella T

  46. And also, I am 17 years old. And I find that PP is good about making things clear, without judgment.
    ~Chelsea T

  47. Simian said...
    "I am appalled by your religion masquerading as concern for teens. Stopping funding for PP is a dreadful thing to wish for. I don't think you fully realise the implications of what you demand."

    Simian, speaking of religion, Catholic hospitals provide so much REAL women's health services FOR FREE, that it puts PP to shame.

    Chabella: "You do not have to get an abortion at PP. You could walk in pregnant, and they give all the options, including parenthood."

    I don't mean to disrespect, but this made me laugh out loud. All of the options?? At PP?? Hardly. They push abortion because that's where the money is. I have talked to SO many post-abortive women who have almost all told me that the pressure they received from PP to "choose" abortion was unbearable.

    "So a devote Catholic can go in just to get support during her pregnancy, not for an abortion."

    It doesn't matter what other services PP provides - IT. KILLS. CHILDREN. Bottom line. And now (thanks to Live Action) we know it covers for child rapists. So no, a devout Catholic could NOT in good conscience enter a business that profits from the blood of dead children, no matter what other service they pass through their doors for. Especially when there are so many life-affirming pregnancy centers available, usually in the same vicinity as abortion mills.

  48. I hate when the question of "What about rape or incest victims?" comes up. Put two beautiful babies side-by-side. Can you tell which one shouldn't exist? What happened to the mother is horrible and counseling needs to be sought and more than likely the baby should be given up for adoption. It is NOT the baby's fault how it got here, but it exists. Even if you don't believe in God, I hope you could not look at someone's child (knowing it was the result of incest or rape) and be disgusted by that baby's existence. I'm not being hypothetical. This is what happened to me. I was raped and found out I was pregnant. I was 22 and terrified and not ready for a baby. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE, including my own mother) said I absolutely had to have a abortion. So I did, and I have regretted this decision every single day of my life since then.

  49. This is timely:

    Abby Johnson (former PP director) talking about how PP does not deserve tax dollars because it does NOT provide quality healthcare and on the contrary how many and what other facilities do.

  50. ...I can never take it back and someday I will have to face this child in heaven and beg his/her forgiveness. I look at my beautiful son now who was the product of a donor and he's no different to me than if I had him through marriage. I wish now I hadn't had him the way I did (and would do things differently if I could go back), but my son is SUPPOSED to be here. I don't love him any less by not loving his "father."


  51. Oh DD, I'm so sorry for your story. How tragic. But what a wonderful advocate you are for women who have suffered from the same horrific situation. Prayers for you. God bless.

  52. DD, my heart breaks for you. You were a victim, too, and that is the tragedy of abortion: Two victims. I am so sorry for your pain.

    Nicole, you said: I have talked to SO many post-abortive women who have almost all told me that the pressure they received from PP to "choose" abortion was unbearable.

    You are so right. It's incredibly coercive at PP, and I keep intending to write a personal story about a woman I met who was DESTROYED by the clinic she went to.... she thought she would get counseling, and they talked her into an abortion, at her most vulnerable moment. She never got over it. Horrible, horrible.

    Chelsea, you are 17, bless your heart. I have a 17-year-old myself (a son). And daughters who are 16 and 19. I will agree with you that PP does give the "facts" of sex, very clearly. Yes, you are right. But PP does not tell you the truth. There is more to sex and sexuality than just the cold, hard facts. Soooooo much more. I hope you will go here and learn more about your inherent dignity and worth:

    You are more than just an object to be used.... You are precious in God's sight! Sex is sooooooo gooooood when used properly, but PP won't tell you that. Please make sure you learn both sides, then you can choose wisely. But don't just get your information from PP. Take a lot of time to learn and read. I recommend "The Good News About Sex and Marriage" by Christopher West, for starters.

    I'm glad you are reading, and I hope you will stick around. You have a lot to contribute here!

  53. Chelsea T, I would also ask that you read Abby Johnson's Unplanned. My sixteen year old daughter read it in a few hours... couldn't put it down!

    I will mail you my copy if you'd like. Also, I think libraries have it. If you want me to mail my copy, please email me at

  54. Has any one answered the birth control question?

    And also, I decided to look at the site, where it says options for pregnancy. And not only do they list parenthood and adoption first, but they also talk about the joys of each. Now, I do think that their needs to be more middle ground, but how are pregnancy centers any better? Weather or not you agree, anything like that should be in the middle, not one sided.

    And DD, I am sorry that that happened to you, and I understand you regret it. But many do not, many actually feel relived. There are too many unwanted children.

    ~Chabella T

  55. Oh, Chelsea. Too many unwanted children? The problem lies not in the existence of the children, but in the hearts of the adults who reject them. Don't you see?

  56. Chabella/Chelsea,

    I am guessing that many Protestant or other crisis pregnancy centers give out contraception, but that is not the holistic Catholic way. Catholic centers care for the whole woman, and do not endanger her health with steroids, hormones and devices put in her body. Chastity and Natural Family Planning are taught. Contraception is a whole other discussion, but it is inherently connected to abortion:

    As for rape victims, I hope you will read this article, which tells about women who have been raped and then have aborted their children. Listen to the women themselves, like DD and the others.

  57. Chabella: "And also, about the centers, what about birth control pills. I know PP also sells birth control for a cheaper price, do PCC's?"

    Many PCC's do not hand out birth control. Most promote abstinence and God's will for sex, much like Leila is doing.

    However, 54% of women who have abortions were on some form of birth control when they got pregnant, so clearly PP doesn't have the answer. In fact, PP's business model is to purposely provide faulty contraception so that women and girls have to return to them when they need an abortion. How compassionate.

    I urge you to watch the video I linked to above. It will answer a lot of your questions.

  58. Their sites mention parenthood and adoption because they are REQUIRED to, but it's a completely different story, Anonymous, when you go into one of their clinics.


  59. 192 women who have been raped and impregnated speak out:

    "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child 'conceived in rape,' feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape or incest. I feel that we're being used to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side of the story." —Kathleen

    "They say abortion is the easy way out, the best thing for everyone,
    but they are wrong. It has been over 15 years, and I still suffer."
    –Rebecca, who became pregnant through rape at age 15

    ...and many more....

  60. Some children might be "unwanted" by the woman giving birth to them, but if believes in life and is not a murderer in her heart, the very best gift she can give another couple who can't have children is that little life.

  61. To clear up any confusion, my name is actually Chelsea, I sometimes use Chabella as a nickname, I did not realized I accidently used both.

    Also, my mother had told me a story of where there was once a teenager who was raped, then she put up her baby up for adoption. Many years later, her baby (now a child) showed up at her doorstep depressed since he thought that he was unloved since he was adopted. But the mother did not want the child because of the rape.

    I think both sides to this controversial debate can produce sad stories. Does not mean that a few account for them all.

    ~Chelsea T

  62. Leila, I know this is slightly off the topic of where the comments have gone, but I think it relates to the original post.

    I am extremely curious about how amazing you keep making sex the "Catholic way" out to be. Considering I am one of the 75 percent of women who cannot achieve an orgasm from intercourse alone, how on earth would I be able to find sex "sooooooo gooooood" when I would be literally unable to reach climax? Without any oral or manual stimulation, the vast majority of women would never experience an orgasm in their lives. Doesn't sound to me like it would be all that pleasurable in the long run, sorry.
    Are there other types of foreplay that are allowed?

    While I'm at it, something else I'm curious about: do Catholics have acceptable sex positions? Like are some not considered "unitive" enough, and therefore not allowed? Is the myth about only doing it in missionary true?

    What about artificial lubricants.... they certainly aren't natural, but a very easy way to make sex more pleasurable for everyone involved.

  63. Hi Chelsea! Thanks for letting us know your real name...I thought you were the same person but didn't want to presume! :)

    You said: "her baby (now a child) showed up at her doorstep depressed since he thought that he was unloved since he was adopted."

    I know it can happen that children who are adopted, after they're grown, long to find their birthparents. I have also heard of some feeling depressed because they were given up for adoption. But I bet if you asked any of them, unless they had severe emotional problems, none would say, "I wish my mom would have killed me instead."

    Circumstances surrounding rape are never easy or uncomplicated. But women regret abortion and suffer the physical and emotional consequences all the time and for years/decades, no matter what caused the child to be conceived. On the contrary, women never regret giving birth to their children.

  64. curious, I am so happy you asked, so that I can dispel some myths.

    Manual stimulation and oral sex are allowed in marriage, as are all positions! The only principle that must be followed is that the sperm is to be deposited in the woman's vagina. In other words, the sperm has to go where it was designed to go. :)

    But as for foreplay and women's orgasm, it is just part of the joy of married sex. (A woman can have an orgasm before or after the man.) So, no worries there. And yes, lubricants are certainly allowed!

    Hope that helps. :)

  65. Chelsea, when deciding the morality of an act, including abortion under difficult circumstances, there is a principle that can never be violated:
    One may never directly kill an innocent person, even to bring about a good.

    I hope that we all can see why that principle is so important in a civilized society. The weakest, most innocent, most vulnerable among us must always be loved and protected, not killed. If we live by that principle, we will have peace in our hearts, no matter what may come.

  66. For Chelsea - you asked about birth control pills - educate yourself :

    There are several reasons that I wouldn't use the pill, but, if nothing else, please be concerned about your health.

    For curious: JoAnna mentioned a couple of excellent books that would speak to a lot of your questions. You get to a certain age and the doctor even tells you to use a lubricant! As long as it isn't spermicidal, and is not unacceptable to either partner, I don't think it's an issue to Catholics....

  67. Hi Curious,
    I'll jump in here and try to answer your questions. The concerns you stated are some very common misconceptions about Catholic teaching on sex.
    I too am one of the 75%, and the good news is that the Catholic Church does not have a problem with manual or oral stimulation of the woman within the context of sex. A husband is absolutely able to (and should! :) ) bring his wife to climax orally or manually as long as it occurs just before or after intercourse.

    As for sex positions, there really aren't any that are bad, but the couple needs to be mindful of the sacred nature of the act and decide which positions make them feel most connected.

    Also, artificial lubricants are absolutely fine. :) They don't interrupt the unitive or pro creative aspect of sex. In fact, in most cases, they probably increase the unitive nature since they often make sex more comfortable for the woman.

    Hope that helps! :)

  68. I also wanted to clarify that when it comes to positions, couples are free to experiment, but if a position is uncomfortable for one spouse, it is defeating the unifying purpose of sex even if the other spouse finds that position particularly enjoyable. Does that make sense?

  69. Here's what I see happening with this issue based on. Catholicism and Christianity has had in place a solid workable barrier to preventing 1. unwanted pregnancies, 2. sexually transmitted diseases, 3. abuse of trust, 4. premature sexualization and the psychological damage it causes and 5. coercion. It's called chastity (not the same as celibacy) which means lots of loving, pleasurable sex when you're married, none when you're not. This is a barrier that is obviously not foolproof, just as the legal protection of private property does not prevent thefts from happening. If respected, however, one is pretty much guaranteed not to have to worry about the majority of these problems other then perhaps getting pregnant unexpectedly when you already have a large family.

    Then the sexual revolution comes along and says "lets knock down the big barrier which kept most but not all of the bad stuff away, to let everyone have as much sex as they want but we'll put up a bunch of small barriers so that we don't get the bad stuff. Which is kind of like saying "We'll let the tiger out of its cage to eat the mice in the zoo, but we'll put a whole bunch of leashes on it so it doesn't eat the children". Stuff like HMC describes in his post...We'll make sure its about mutual consent, we'll put condoms on to keep diseases and babies away, we'll sexualize the hell out of everything so no one is "ashamed", "shy" or "repressed" and that everyone has a good time.

    Well of course these "leashes" aren't strong enough and the tiger's razor sharp teeth chews through one at a time. Condoms don't work, so babies get conceived anyway and have to be aborted. Sexualizing every element of discourse didn't liberate people it enslaved them, making them feel obligated to put out in a relationship because it's "what everyone else is doing and besides if I don't, he/she might dump me for someone who will", as for consent...see my earlier comment on that. How much of consent is really consent? which the person has taken a long hard look at themselves and said "yes I'm ready to be with this person". Most consent is given either because of pressure, coercion, or personal insecurity.

    So now the tiger of sexual liberation is free and is eating up both mice and kids, kids in the womb in fact, innocent babies who have no voice and no rights. It's eating our youth from the inside out, as they lose the ability to discern real love and to know what it feels like to be loved.

    I would give anything to have known this in my 20's. I would give anything to have had my first sexual experience on my wedding night with my husband, and not with some douchebag with four kids and a wife who probably bragged about bagging a college aged virgin to his buddies afterwards. I know so many people whose first sexual experiences were with the wrong person, that I could write a book. In my own family we have quite a collection: married douche, ex-con who ended up back in jail on molestation charges, idiot who conceived and bailed, crazy chick who became insanely possessive, alcoholic 1, 2, and 3. What heartache could have been avoided by waiting, by caring about oneself long enough to wait until that commitment.

  70. Barbara, Wow. You have said it all. I did wait - the only man I have ever made love to is my husband. But I remember one guy asking for my virginity for his 21st birthday present - my response - I broke up with him. He got to keep the cake.

  71. Hi Leila, my name is Rachel.

    Tried to comment before, don't think it worked, but apologies if I double post.

    While I absolutely respect your views, I have to take issue with something you said in the comments. While addressing Chelsea, who by the way seems incredibly mature and informed for 17, you say "You are more than just an object to be used.."

    Of course she is. But in saying that you are implying that any man or teenage male who has sex outside of marriage is using the person they are sleeping with. I know many men for whom this is not the case and your implication is incredibly sexist.
    No one should ever use anyone else for sex. But please understand that not everyone, every man, who has sex outside of marriage is using someone.

  72. Thanks Rachel!

    And about the birth control thing. There are risks to having baby also, and some are higher to teenagers. Women can die while having a baby.

    Also, birth control have gotten safer. Now they are used to treat other issues to.

    ~Chelsea T

  73. So, birth control has risks. Having a baby has risks (though statistically, I'd venture far fewer than birth control). What is the best solution here?

    Oh, not having sex. That was easy.

  74. Barbara, wow is right! I think you have spoken the truth, and boldly. I wish I had known that, too, when I was a teen.

    Klh, ha, I love it!

    Rachel, welcome! I am happy you are here! You are right that not every man (and I love men!) is consciously using a woman/girl when they have sex. The culture has (erroneously) taught us that having sex with someone (even unmarried) is showing love.

    Here's the real test for any girl who is sexually active and wants to know if her boyfriend truly loves her and isn't using her: She can tell him that she had decided that she wants to practice chastity until marriage. Will he stay with her and love her, even if they aren't having sex? That is a good test, and most girls know in their hearts what the boy will do. For the boy that stays, well, he's a keeper! :)

    As for those men who really do love their girlfriend whom they are having sex with (and I am sure there are many!), it is still not right, and there is still an unconscious "using" going on. You see, the body has a language. For example, if someone shakes your hand and looks you in the eye while making you a promise, you assume by his body language that he is saying, "I am being truthful; you can trust my word." Body language.

    Sex has a language. Sex says by its very nature: "I love you, and I want to give myself entirely to you, with nothing held back. We are one." The body is making a commitment that was even designed to produce a human child! So, a man who is having sex with a woman outside of the context of lifelong marriage, is "lying" with his own body, even if he doesn't consciously understand that.

    It's early, I've got to get ready for mass, and so that may not have made the best sense, but I will try again later! :)

  75. Chelsea, hi! I totally agree with Rachel that you are a very mature 17-year-old. :) Definitely more mature than I was at your age!

    I think that birth control (the Pill) is now prescribed as a knee-jerk reaction to any problem women have with cycles, cramps, and acne. It's unfortunate, as it actually cures nothing, but just masks the underlying problem. Here is a great excerpt from Sarah, from a recent blog post (

    I had several fascinating exchanges this week about birth control. First, I know a physical therapist who specializes in women's issues. She's not Catholic or conservative. We were chatting the other day about hormonal health. To my surprise, she began telling me about the many women who have been on the Pill long-term who have terrible health issues. Their bodies have been so altered by long-term contraceptive use that they suffer from quite a range of issues. She shared that a lot of research is bringing into question the way things have been done in the past.

    I left the conversation feeling both sad and very angry. I feel like this is the stuff the medical community either ignores or whispers about. How many women are on the Pill long-term? If you start using it in your late teens, by the time you're 30, you could find yourself facing some difficult health situations.

    This conversation was followed by another exchange with a group of women around my age. The vast majority of these ladies reported some significant issues they've experienced while on hormonal contraceptives. Some are having to hop from brand to brand to try to correct some of their symptoms. Some are stuck with long-term effects like significant weight gain that won't come off.

    What struck me about these ladies more than anything was their fear. They were willing to endure migraines, weight gain, low libido, increased risk for stroke, fatigue etc because they found their fertility scary.

    These are American women with master's degrees and in many cases products of comprehensive sex education. I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but their ignorance was astounding. While these ladies could talk at length about the brands and methods of birth control out there, they knew very little about fertility. And these women's medical decisions were clearly being fueled not just by the supposed convenience of certain methods (I wouldn't exactly say migraines are convenient) but by their fears of what they don't know about their bodies. Some even defended their choices by claiming you can't really know much about your fertility, so you need to just suppress it until you desire pregnancy.

    And it's abstinence educators who are accused of failing to educate and empower?

    More than ever, I am convinced the mass prescription of hormonal contraceptives has nothing to do with women's health. It's about "the way things have always been done." And making the bottom line. And burying our heads in the sand about the science of fertility.

    Some good food for thought.

    I was put on the Pill for "health reasons" twenty-five years ago, and now I am a bit resentful that strong steroids were introduced to my body when I was so young. Steroids which we now know can increase our risk for cancer. We fight against steroids for young men in sports, but when it comes to young women, apparently we are guinea pigs, or expendable? Makes no sense.

  76. Isn't it interesting that there are drugs for women to "control" their bodies while there are drugs for men to "enhance" theirs? Here women are thinking they're being liberated by the pill.

  77. So Catholic & secular married people believe in the same type of sex, but secular married people don't believe they have to run a large risk of getting pregnant each time they do it. I guess we all have more in common than we thought.

    (except for masturbation and where seed must always be deposited.)

    On another note, I just want to say that I am sorry to many of you that much of your earlier sexual experiences were subpar at best. I understand much more clearly now why you are very upset about this issue. You don't want other young girls to go through heartache & being used or abused as many of you were. That is a terrible feeling and the Catholic view of sex and sexuality surely insulates you from it.

    But on the other hand, this is not everyone else's experience. Many of us had great partners, meaningful sex and joy from our pre-wedded 'unions.' I know my husband and I did.

    Also, Leila asks how HMU's list of positive PP material negates her list. The answer is that your list of what PP says is negative to YOU but not me or many others. They just stated facts about virginity, oral sex, nomosexuality and contraceptive use. I can see how it clashes with your beliefs and how the info may be sensitive to a pre-teen as opposed to a 17 year old, but nothing about what you posted is offensive.(to me, anyway)

    This is the first anonymous who commented the other day, BTW.

  78. Rebecca posted the following remarks in the comments after Sarah's post on birth control (which I reprinted above, 9:16am).

    As a woman who was on birth control from my late teens until I was 30, I can't tell you how angry it makes me when I hear of more women who experienced what I did - lack of REAL, USEFUL information. We are taught to trust doctors and nurses, yet they are the ones who've led us down this path. I work so hard at not being bitter over what I didn't know, but being grateful for what I know now.

    I ask all the Planned Parenthood supporters: Do you think that women and young girls deserve to know what it is they are putting into their bodies? I remember going to PP as a teen, and they gave me a quick exam after promising that my parents would never find out (I was a "Code Mindy" as they called it), then handed me packs of pills. I was not told much if anything about the effects on my body, my future health, etc. It was as if it were natural and normal to give a young girl powerful steroids in order to make her healthy body function derail, so that she could be free to mess around at will (or at the whim of the boyfriend). It is very infuriating looking back. On so many levels.

  79. Hi first anonymous! Let me respond to one point at at time:

    You said: ...secular married people don't believe they have to run a large risk of getting pregnant each time they do it.

    Just to be clear, we Catholics don't "run a large risk of getting pregnant each time." Natural Family Planning (NFP) is extremely effective in preventing a pregnancy. It has the same success rate as the Pill when used properly (over 99%, right?). And NFP is not to be confused with the "rhythm method" of old.

    So, I have been married 20 years, and I have eight children. Every one of the children has been a result of "trying for a child". I don't have the slightest fear that I will be surprised by a pregnancy, because I know my body so well (now THAT'S female empowerment!). But here's the beauty of NFP: It works on a person's heart as well ... so, if I were to have a surprise pregnancy, it would be seen as a blessing, a fruit of our marriage. There is a real mindset change once you begin to see how God designed sex and marriage and then act on it. It's been the most amazing thing!!

    PS: For my first three children, we were still a contracepting couple. NFP has been "as good" as contraception was for us, prevention-wise, but so much better for us emotionally, physically, sexually, mentally, etc.

  80. Anonymous, you said:

    On another note, I just want to say that I am sorry to many of you that much of your earlier sexual experiences were subpar at best. I understand much more clearly now why you are very upset about this issue. You don't want other young girls to go through heartache & being used or abused as many of you were. That is a terrible feeling and the Catholic view of sex and sexuality surely insulates you from it.

    But on the other hand, this is not everyone else's experience. Many of us had great partners, meaningful sex and joy from our pre-wedded 'unions.' I know my husband and I did.

    Please don't misunderstand. I am sure there are many people who are enjoying and do not regret premarital sex. I can't say it was all bad in my life, either! But what I am saying as a Catholic is that I understand and experience something now that I never possibly could before, since I was never taught and never knew!

    I said this above, but it's worth repeating:

    Sex is a Renoir. Catholics treat a Renoir like a Renoir, but Planned Parenthood takes the Renoir and uses it as lining for the birdcage.

    And until you've lived both ways, you can't say that I'm wrong, right? ;)

    Anyway, I am not saying you didn't enjoy or find meaning in your premarital sexual relationships. I'm just saying that you were actually made for something higher and better.

  81. Anonymous, you said:

    Also, Leila asks how HMU's list of positive PP material negates her list. The answer is that your list of what PP says is negative to YOU but not me or many others.

    I grant you that. I am aware that there are some people who do not find anything that Planned Parenthood does or says offensive. I think that is the minority, though. I think most Americans do not know what PP presents to children and teens. I also don't think that most Americans know or could defend what happens in an abortion (no one yet has defended this video, and I keep waiting:

    But I do understand that you are okay with what PP says and does.

  82. Anonymous:

    To add to what Leila says above. You may not find anything offensive about what PP says for yourself. But would you find it acceptable if PP said the same things to your 12 year old daughter and told her that her parents (you) would never have to know they were discussing it with her?

    Just curious.

  83. Chelsea,
    It is very sad that your friend felt unloved as an adoptive child. I'm sure this happens, however, as an adopted child myself, I was always taught that I was EXTRA WANTED. My parents didn't get me the "easy" way. They had to try, be frustrated, humbled, ask, beg, apply, wait, prove, wait, make sacrifices, speak to a judge, etc. You have to REALLY want a child to go through all that. Adopted children are loved just as much as biological children. It may be different, but it isn't less.

  84. Catching up here on posts... I have to second what Leila is saying regarding the "large risk" of getting pregnant with "Catholic sex." :) If you truly understand the science of fertility, you would know that a woman only has a small window of fertility each cycle (if she is blessed to be fertile... sub-fertility is on the rise for both men and women). NFP is extremely effective in identifying that window. I have yet to meet an NFP user who can't figure out how their babies got here. :)

    I think one of the many myths sex education has fueled is the myth that a woman can get pregnant "any time, every time." This is just bad science and fear-based education. No, a woman can only get pregnant if she has intercourse *when she is fertile.* I know of married couples who use condoms "at all times" because this is what they were taught was "safe" in school, years ago. If they tracked their fertility, they would realize that they are wasting a lot of money, lowering the quality of their sexual intimacy, and creating an inconvenience.

    I highly recommend learning about NFP... I know couples who aren't even devout Catholics who say they find NFP so freeing for them sexually and so much healthier. For the commenter who cited 75 percent of women struggle to climax... are you aware lowered libido is a common side effect of hormonal contraceptives? I highly doubt women would struggle so much with enjoying sex if they weren't having to overcome the side effects of the Pill or using latex condoms and barriers (yes, I realize there are other causes for low libido, but I doubt the issue would be so widespread).

  85. I completely understand where everything is coming from, especially mothers trying to protect their daughters from mis information. However as a college student I do feel the need to interject on how social climate and not planned parenthood has drastically shaped young adults attitudes about sex.

    In high school i was appauled that many of my friends were having of casual sex with multiple boys. Although I wasnt waiting until marriage I resolved that my virginity was very important and should only be shared in the context of a committed relationship when I was much older( something id learned from my mother) I assumed this was the appropriate way to act and I would be rewarded for this later.

    Fast forward a few years where I am a senior at an elite university and I can tell you that is not the case. ALL of my college friends who have great boyfriends met them because they starting casually having sex first and it eventually led into a relationship. All of my high school friends the ones who slept with 8 boys by the time they were 17 have commited boyfriends now, and that is not a coinsidence. Because these girls were willing to have sex first they were viewed as independant not clingy or needed and this quality was attractive to boys.

    Now I know what your thinking; im surrounded by jerks not chrstian boys and its bet to hold out.This is probably true; but I talk to my friends @ maryland, georgetown, northwestern and I dont think its going anywhere

    Basically what im saying is mothers ( or mine did) stressed how horrible it would be to sleep with a boy who didnt really care about you. But what she failed to mention is that not having dates to formals, or someone to road trip with or hang out with sucks at least as much....think about it

  86. "committed relationships" do not always lead to marriage. There is always an escape clause.

  87. College Student, that is one of the saddest things I have ever read. I think the feminist movement has utterly failed women if this is where we are. I think you might find this (secular) article interesting, about the young men out there today, who are really just little boys who never grow up. It's slim pickins for girls:

    I would love your thoughts on that.

    Also, my daughter is a college student at a large secular university. She has a lot of really great friends, girls and guys and they are not sleeping around. The majority of the campus might be "hooking up", but you can always find a great niche of friends if you look. Of course, it helps to be part of a campus group such as the Newman Center (the Catholic community/church on most secular campuses).

    I appreciate the comment!

  88. College Student, your last comment is incredibly sad: "Basically what im saying is mothers ( or mine did) stressed how horrible it would be to sleep with a boy who didnt really care about you. But what she failed to mention is that not having dates to formals, or someone to road trip with or hang out with sucks at least as much."

    I think we're in a really bad place as a society if women are trained to think that not having a date to a formal is as bad as losing your virginity at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. It makes me want to cry that you (or perhaps people you know) would have sex too early because, somehow in our twisted, convoluted, sex-crazed society, it's better than going stag to prom!

  89. I respect and appreciate your comments, and I understand my college experiences aren’t everyone’s

    These are just things I've noticed. That perhaps are no ones faults just are the way they are

    1) Boys hate virgins. I learned this the hard way. The innocent thing doesn’t have the appeal that I thought it would. Most prefer a girl not to be one, as they are rumored to be clingy and bad in bed. I once asked a boy I was frankly hooking up with why he didn’t tried to sleep me with me yet, he very seriously responded that he would like to but didn’t want to go first and proposed I sleep with one of his friends first, and then he would be happy to follow (I was 19 when this happened
    2) This attitude has led to many friends that I've had who were virgins at 20 and 21 to just get it over with, including me-yes pity me if you want. The overwhelmingly amount of girls don’t tell the guy they are with that they are virgins, be a so called-sex crazed college guy has lots of options he doesn’t have to resort to virgins, thus if you tell him first he will probably decline

  90. Some services Planned Parenthood provided in one year:
    3,000,000 STI tests
    1,200,000 pregnancy tests
    970,000 pap smears
    850,000 breast exams
    370,000 HIV tests
    47,000 colposcopies
    30,000 HPV vaccinations
    11,000 prenatal clients
    400 infertility clients

    Not to mention they are the primary care providers for 21,000 American men and women.

    Should they aid and abet sex traffickers? Heck no. But should we defund them completely? Absolutely not. Like them (and their political leanings) or not, they provide life-saving health care for millions of Americans, and I personally think that reforming the program is the way to go

    -PP Supporter

  91. PP Supporter, I understand why you say what you do, but please, please, look at the second two graphs here and tell me what you think:

  92. College student, I am sick because you girls are worth so much more than that. My goodness, the boys you describe (and believe me, it was a pretty sexual world when I was in college, too) are not worth a bucket of warm spit. They are lowlife slime, and I don't know why women accommodate them. I seriously am so angry at these "men", but I am bewildered by the women! What has gone wrong with how we have raised our sons? And our daughters to accept this? I am sick about it. :(

    As for men who don't want virgins, I will tell you that character attracts like character. Men who respect women will not check her like a piece of meat and expect her to fit his lustful needs. That is so degrading. A true gentleman would cherish and respect a woman who respects herself. It's not too late to hold out for a real man. Please, please do!

    Will you email me?

    Man, that is depressing.

    And I'm really, really ticked at feminists.

  93. Well said Nicole. Seriously, I had many lonely Saturday nights and eventually I actually preferred it that way than going through the hassle of hopefully hooking up with someone only to find out he's a jerk and I wasted a night, weeks or months of my life with him. What a waste of time. Totally not worth it. I finally just preferred to be by myself and stay home watching a video or something like that. It's a miracle I did meet Mr. Right because I was perfectly happy without a guy. It was going to have to be a very special guy if I was going to let him infringe on my ME time. And he is a very special guy. I'd see too many smart beautiful women lower their standards just so they wouldn't be alone. Such a waste. Young ladies, you're worth so much more than that.

  94. Also I understand how not having a date to something must totally and utterly seem like its not a big deal

    However being single throughout 4 years of college ( remember there are no dates, so its hookups, or relationships) is lonely. Remember that girls with boyfriends or hookups have someone to do things with, to help them clear the snow off of their car, to go home to at the end of the night, to go apple picking with-and its very difficult to do all of these things to find someone to do these things with u in the first place without sex first. Its no wonder the sex comes first,

    Not saying its right, just saying it is what it is

  95. Planned Parenthood should not be defunded because they offer a service to pregnant women that is completely legal in this country.

    If they were to continue offering abortions if/when abortion becomes illegal, then by all means they should be stripped of their federal funding.

    -PP Supporter

  96. College Student - Leila summed it up, but let me just assure you that conceding to the hook-up culture is not all there is - it doesn't have to be that way for you! I have never understood why women so desperately NEED a man that they are willing to give up their virginity in order to "not seem clingy." What a horrible reason to give up something so precious!

    I'm not so old, and it was a very sexualized culture when I was in college too. Sure, I was raised Catholic, but at the time I don't think I really fully understood the theology of it all. But somehow I made it through my college years without giving it up. I even survived 5 pretty wild years in Chicago post-grad still being a virgin.

    And guess what I found on the other side? An amazingly supportive, humble, virtuous, respectful, pure man who married me.

    It just makes me so sad because IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY!! If women just stood their ground and refused to be used as objects (I thought that's what the feminist movement was supposed to do for us - why is the reality the opposite?), men wouldn't have the option of choosing women to sleep with as though they're "flavors of the week."

  97. I was also single through 4 years of college. My husband was my first long-term relationship. Yes, at times it got lonely. But I had enough self-worth to not give up my virginity for apple-picking. YOU ARE WORTH MORE!!!! Please!! Find a group on campus that you have something in common with. I beg you to stop the path you're on. It can be so much better!!!

  98. PP Supporter: "Planned Parenthood should not be defunded because they offer a service to pregnant women that is completely legal in this country."

    We're not saying they should be defunded, but they shouldn't receive MY tax dollars. They're perfectly welcome to operate on private donations.

    Furthermore, no one is arguing that they be defunded because they provide abortions. They should be defunded because of their failure to report statutory rape and their covering-up of sex trafficking. As well as their blatant misleading of women seeking abortion:

  99. College Student,

    I'm 26, so it was only 4 years ago that I was in college. I just want to say that any guy that doesn't want a virgin isn't worth your time. I mean, what kind of love does that guy have for a girl who is a virgin if his main concern is that stereotypically, virgins are rumored to be "clingy" or bad in bed. Clearly, his priority is not having commitment and having the best lover for his own pleasure.

    Loneliness is really difficult in college. It sounds like that is what you are communicating the loudest. But a boyfriend doesn't solve that; they can't fill every desire of a girl's heart.

  100. PP Supporter,
    "If they were to continue offering abortions if/when abortion becomes illegal, then by all means they should be stripped of their federal funding."

    Why, because they'd then be doing something illegal?

    Well, aiding and abetting in sex trafficking is illegal, so let's defund them on those grounds.

  101. College Girl - I used to believe that boys hated virgins too. I can promise you that this ONLY applies to the men that are most definitely not worth your time as Complicated Life said. I really, truly believed that I had to lose my virginity if I didn't want to get "left behind." Guess what? Just a few years later, I met many wonderful men who actually had respect for women. I married at age 29 to a man who waited for me, much to my surprise (and he's pretty darn handsome if I do say so myself - that's him in the photo with me ;)). I am so sorry you are experiencing this social loneliness and isolation but I encourage you to keep seeking out those who have similar values... they are definitely out there.

  102. There is a difference between Planned Parenthood as an organization aiding and abetting sex traffickers, and an unfortunate number of employees doing the same. Hence why I call for (serious) reform, instead of stripped funding.

    And Nicole, Leila was the one that directed me to the abortion information. I was planning to only speak regarding the sex trafficking.

    -PP Supporter

  103. College student said:
    "Fast forward a few years where I am a senior at an elite university and I can tell you that is not the case. ALL of my college friends who have great boyfriends met them because they starting casually having sex first and it eventually led into a relationship. All of my high school friends the ones who slept with 8 boys by the time they were 17 have commited boyfriends now, and that is not a coinsidence. Because these girls were willing to have sex first they were viewed as independant not clingy or needed and this quality was attractive to boys."

    But perhaps fast forward five or ten years from now. The divorce rate will be higher among your friends who've had premarital sex. Not to mention the possible std's or other diseases they may face because of their promiscuity.

    Hold out because you're worth more. Hold out because there are men out there who are virgins, too, for all the right reasons.

    There is no standard that says you must sleep around to have a long term relationship. That's a fabrication of the culture that glamorizes sex, sex, sex.

    Entering into that union is something that two dating adults must discuss as adults, without the pressure. Granted, this kind of discussion happens after the relationship has already formed toward a serious exclusivity to all others.

    Keep your head up, college student. You aren't the first girl to battle lonely nights in hopes of her prince coming. He will come someday. In the meantime,you're healthier for not succumbing to the culture and pressures of casual sex.

  104. Leila: That's an excellent statement. "Sex is a language". It's so true. When you have sex with someone your body says to that person "I love you, I want to be near you, I want to know you". That's why its so devastating when a young woman believes that message only to find out it was a lie.

    Anon: not all of my sexual experiences before marriage were bad. In fact my husband and I had great sex before we got married (I wasn't Catholic then) and you know what? I still wish I would have waited. Having sex before marriage created its own set of problems that put an inordinate amount of stress on our relationship that could have been avoided by practicing continence.

    College Student: Forgive me for saying so but those guys were douchebags. Not wanting a virgin because they're "too clingy"? what the hell does that mean? she has something beating in her chest as opposed to being an anatomically correct cyborg? Anyway clinginess is not an issue when you're married.

    All of us want and need to be loved. We're made for love, deep, eternal love. Human beings are the only species that mate out of love, that create a sacred ritual and avowed lifetime commitment around the procreative act in order for it to be a channel for a deeper love than mere erotic desire. Yet you "sex positive" folk want us to ash can all of that and become like unto the animals, rutting left and right, rather than beings with souls who write poetry, gaze at the moon, fall in love and long for eternity and the face of God.

  105. I’m smiling at all the genuinely optimistic and encouraging responses, and I appreciate every one of them.

    But I suppose what I was getting at was this. For years, I have been listening to my mother and other well-meaning women who have said, you just haven’t met anyone you must wait for your prince. However as I and many of my peers have learned, you aren’t entitled to a boyfriend or a husband! At college women outnumber men. There are far more beautiful ambitious kind women then there are men to go around; one of the reasons the hook up culture emerged. Frankly boys in many circles aren’t conditioned to date they don’t know how and they don’t have a reason to do it.

    While I understand the temptation to label these boys as douche bags and these women as weak; we must do the math, if 50% of the boys are douchbags ( and at least as many are )then they’re aren’t enough for all of us! We thus have a decision to make go for a douche bag or go alone. While the decision to go stag may seem like the one you would choose, staying alone for your entire life isn’t really a good permanent solution. I know there is a temptation to say oh they will grow out of it, but will they? All of them? We cant believe they will. The pool of elgibile guys is small the pool of eligible guys who aren’t jerks is minuscule

    The situation has led me and my best friend to ask ourselves questions that must make it seem like we are pathetic and have no self-esteem, but I think its important to think about. What if no one wants to marry us? I get that this must seem extreme considering im 21, but if your being honest its something you have to consider. I cannot assume like many of you did that someone will marry me ( because if all of us do some of us are statistically wrong!) This has of course altered my view of sexuality. I am no longer a virgin as many of you have assumed partially because like it or not sex is the new dating and if you have to have sex in order to get some attention and to end up alone it seems pretty worth it.

    Before you freak on me for not having values or self-esteem please considers what I am saying and the statistical certainly of it all. I am not trying to be overly pessimistic, just observant, and although it doesn’t make me happy it doesn’t make it not true. Also if anyone is curious my parents are Christians and have been married over 30 years. I’m a senior at Northwestern.

  106. College Student, I mean this in the most loving, genuine, compassionate way possible: YOU HAVE IT ALL WRONG!!! Many of us who are commenting to you are not that far removed from college so we get it. We get the culture you're talking about, and many of us have lived it - we're not just being naively optimistic - we're speaking from actual experience and hindsight.

    It's not as simple as the math you refer to. Just because there are X number of girls to X number of guys doesn't mean that if you wait for Mr. Right you'll be left behind or be somehow inferior. Believe me - God has a plan for you and as much as you may want to control your future and the fact that you won't be alone doesn't mean you'll be happy in the long run.

    Scenario: What if you end up marrying one of these douchebags just to avoid a lifetime of loneliness? He'll probably a) not really respect you and your dignity as a woman; b) be unfaithful (no, I'm not saying all men who have sex before marriage end up unfaithful - but if you're marrying a douchebag just to not be lonely, well...); and c) you'll probably end up divorced. All of which will produce exponentially more loneliness in the long run than having held out a few more years for your prince.

    And yes, I do get your math. But the math gets a whole lot simpler when you exclude all the douchebag boys and the girls who sleep with them for terrible reasons. There are far fewer of both and you'll find you have so much more important things in common and a much deeper relationship.

    I'm jumping all over here and I hope I'm making sense. But your comments are gut-wrenching to me and I so desperately want you to stop the destructive path that you're on because I do believe that one day (it's hard to see now) you'll look back and wish you'd have waited. I know...hindsight is 20/20. But that's why all of us are begging you to change course. Because our hindsight is 20/20 too, so we can help you avoid any more heartache down the road. Please give it some thought.

    And I'd love for you to email me. I'm from the Northwestern area!

  107. College Girl - many of the fears and questions you ask regarding single life and if there are enough men out there are ones I asked *many times* in my 20's. I don't think you "get" that we DO "get it." Remember, I said I married at 29. I had to face the fact that I may never marry (unlikely... the vast majority of folks marry in the U.S. eventually, but yes, some never do, and I had to face the fact that I may remain single). I had to come to terms with the fact that happiness and meaning in life does not revolve around whether or not we get married. (Although trust me, I never stopped looking for the right guy).

    Again, I am sorry you are immersed in this situation. You mentioned demographics... it's true more women than men go to college now. Are you aware that it's now a trend for women to have more degrees than their husbands? Who says you have to marry a man who pursued the same level of degree as you? The point is... the microcosm you are now immersed in is not "all there is." And yes, even some of the guys taking advantage will mature (and deeply regret their actions).

    Please don't allow yourself to pulled down into this lifestyle... it will not lead you to a greater chance of happiness, intimacy, or marriage. As Nicole said, many of us have "been there" recently. I allowed myself to do this (and I went to a college where men outnumbered women. Guess what? Many still behaved like this, and I let myself get caught up in it, and I VERY MUCH regret it).

  108. College Girl and others:
    If I can bring the perspective of a middle aged European male atheist with 3 grown up daughters into the conversation: A few thoughts that you may find useful...
    1. Waiting a year or two might seem like an eternity at your age. By the time you get to my age it goes in a flash. My point is don't be in too much of a hurry to get hitched to the first available man. It's not uncommon to get married later nowadays, and whether or not you slept around in college will be irrelevant, so don't feel pressured!
    2. If you have a male friend who is truly a friend and no more, bear in mind that after you have become lovers there is seldom a way in my experience to revert to being just friends if you cease being lovers. That may not change your mind but do think of the potential consequence to your friendship.
    3. As this is a conservative Catholic blog you are clearly going to get a conservative Catholic view on sex. I don't share their hangups and I think the element of prohibition can actually encourage teens to be more sexually active, as a form of rebellion. I've seen it many times. Always ask yourself "Is this what I want to do, or am I doing this to be rebellious or to be cool in the eyes of my peers" Neither is a particularly good reason..
    4. Teens and those in their early twenties tend to vastly embellish their sexual exploits. Always read between the lines and treat other's claims with huge scepticism. One of my daughters felt incredibly pressured by the stories her schoolfrinds told her about their sexual exploits. Fortunately I was able to convince her in time that they were being very ecomonical with the truth, and a few years later she told me she now had confirmation I had been absolutely right!
    5. Don't know about the US but in UK there's an expression "Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen". In my experience men do not respect women who make it too easy for them - they get bored very soon after and move on. It's perverse, but if someone is really keen on you, the longer you make them wait, the more committed they tend to become.
    6. On one point I would diverge from the blog mainstream contributors - You can have a fantastic loving, caring and sharing sexual relationship outside marriage which you will not regret, and about which you should not feel in the least guilty. In most societies this has always happened. The difference now is that you have it totally in your power to prevent unwanted consequences as long as you are well informed. But, and this is a huge but, go into this kind of relationship for the right reasons (you have huge mutual respect and love for each other) rather than out of desperation or seeking to conform, or any of the many other reasons which make you feel uncomfortable, and which mean you have to make compromises which you find hard to accept.

  109. Awesome points from a secular perspective, Simian! And just further confirmation that no matter what religious persuasion you're from (or lack thereof), casual sex for the wrong reasons is destructive - now and in the long run.

  110. college student, I agree with the others... I have been there! I totally get what you are saying. I lived it! But, you will regret it later, as I have 20/20 hindsight, too. We are praying for you! (I still hope you will email me.)

    Simian, great points from the atheist perspective (except for parts of #6)! Thank you! (Although the comments about our "hang-ups" made me laugh... No hang-ups here, I assure you!)

  111. college student... you also might want to think about hanging out in places where men of virtue hang out. I know they are rare, but you have to find them where they are. Church, campus ministries, Christian dating services, etc. They are out there.

  112. College Student, I will add to the choir. It is much better to be alone than to hook up with a loser. And he could even make lots of money. I don't care. It's better to be alone. I was a lonely college girl. I met my prince when I was 28 after being on my own and loving it. I did the whole hook up game and it was just that; a game and no fun at all. I got nothing out of it. And if the ratio is all what you said it is, all the more reason to wait. In the end I married my best friend. We just celebrated our 11th anniversary and I'm still in love with him. We've all been where you are so like others have said we DO understand. I'm telling you, it's better to be alone than with these losers. And Simian is right on so many points too. But no, it's not about hangups. It's about making things less complicated. When you add sex to the mix, it makes things so much more complicated. You're less likely to attract douche bags if sex is off the table. You're less likely to be some experiment for some guy who's trying you out and vice versa. My babysitter started practicing her Mormon faith and gone chaste with her boyfriend. He's still with her and he has said he respects her more and they're engaged to be married. He passed the test. He loves her for her and is willing to wait. And he comes from a totally non-religious secular background. She's only 25 and I admire her for this. She's so much more together than I was when I was her age.

  113. Holy moly. Reading this made me want to puke all over the place. UGH. Thank heaven for the defunding!

  114. College student, I remained a virgin until my wedding night. Granted, I married two months before my 21st birthday, but when I met my husband it was online, and I was very up front about the fact that I was a virgin (he wasn't) and was committed to remaining so until my wedding night. He was kind, understanding, and committed to waiting for me and with me.

    As a result, my first sexual experience was in the presidential suite of the finest hotel in our city (a gift from my mother-in-law). It was AWESOME, and soaking in the in-room jacuzzi afterward was pretty spectacular, too.

    It was a much better experience than the backseat of a vehicle or a stuffy dorm room or the basement of a frat house. I will always treasure the memory of my first sexual experience since it was on my wedding night with the man I am married to, and he has often told me that I gave him the best wedding gift that he could have gotten. Plus, for him, knowing that he is the only man that I have ever been with makes him feel incredibly humbled and thankful.

    All told, I have never regretted waiting, and I've never heard of anyone else regretting waiting either. Once you have sex, you can't take it back. And if a man won't have a relationship until sex, then he's not worth having a relationship with because he only sees you as a means to an end (sexual pleasure).

    Do you want a relationship with any man who only sees you as a means to an end?

  115. College Student,
    I know you're probably overwhelmed here, but I just want to add my two cents. I know where you are. I've been there. I was the last of my friends to "give it up" in college (holding out to the ripe old age of nineteen!) and this at a very Catholic school. When I did finally give in, it was for the reasons you mention: loneliness. I had a boy I really loved break up with me because I was a virgin. I was actually willing to have sex with him, but he didn't want to (his words) "do that do me." So one night I got really drunk at a party, smoked some pot, and lost my virginity to a boy I barely knew. The next day he found me on campus because he had heard I was upset afterward, and apologized profusely. He said, "I had no idea you were a virgin. I would never have done that if I had known."

    See, the thing is, they didn't want to not have sex with me because I was inexperienced. They didn't want to have sex with me because they knew that virginity is a gift that should be reserved for someone you're willing to spend your life with. They were both pretty good guys (except for the sleeping around thing).

    Here's another perspective on sleeping around, too, that I haven't seen mentioned. My husband and I both had multiple partners before we were married. Let me tell you, that does damage to a marital relationship. We spent years, literally years, dealing with each other's insecurities over previous sexual encounters. It has caused rifts in our marriage that are still healing. Worse still is the fact that those other men are still a part of my memory. There is one man that I love and only one man that I want to think of or remember in that way, yet because of my own actions my mind is tainted, as it were. And knowing that it's the same for my husband is heartbreaking. I would give anything to have waited, and he would too.

    I know you've already had sex, but don't say, "it's too late." It's not too late. There is a lot to be said for learning chastity after having been around the block. It's more difficult, but the lessons you learn are more precious, I think.

    You might also think of the men you're sleeping with. Let's face it, you probably won't marry most of them. Do you really want to be another face they wish they could forget when they finally do find the woman they want to spend their life with? You're worth more than that. You should hold out for the man that only wants to remember you. I wish I had.

    Oh, and regarding the dangers of the Pill. You think women have achieved equality? Think again. In the first trials on the Pill, they were developing one for men and women. In the male trial, one man experienced shrunken testes. The trial was immediately stopped. In the female trial, three women died. The makers made minor adjustments and carried on.

    Thanks a lot, feminism. In the name of reproductive freedom, we get danger and death. Excellent trade off.

  116. Ugh. What can I say? "Been there done that" doesn't help, does it?

    All I can say is:

    We are made in the image of God and we deserve to be treated like a Temple of the Holy Spirit and a Child of God.

    Restoring dignity to our culture's views of human sexuality is going to be tough.

    Boys, young men, men of all ages...need to be in on this conversation. They WANT TO BE holy.

    We are yearn for holiness, purity, and great sacrifice, GREAT LOVE.

    We are not objects and sex isn't for exchanging favors.

    UGH. After reading this post, I seriously am thinking of never sending my children to college.

    How dehumanizing to need help and to exchange one's most intimate, beautiful gift in the hope of getting a favor.

    The loneliness of the college experience to me is a crime against the soul.

    And, loveless sex is a crime against our deepest yearning to be GREAT LOVERS.

  117. Also, College Student: I highly recommend reading "The Thrill of the Chaste" by Dawn Eden. She lived the party girl lifestyle and now lives a chaste lifestyle, and she much prefers the latter to the former.

  118. Hey Leila - do you do post requests?

    I am a lurker here. You'll never convince me to go Catholic (said with a smile, of course), but you might have me with NFP.

    I have three children at present, ages 8-3. At present, we just do not have the financial resources to take care of another child. No, this is not because we have fancy cars and a big house - it is because the economy is abysmal and we are eking by on the essentials as it is. As many folks are, we're just clinging on and waiting for the storm to pass. And no, if I got pregnant, I wouldn't run out and get an abortion. But I have to be honest, I would cry my eyes out. I really, really, really am not ready at the moment.

    Our current "contraceptive" method is withdrawal and it has always worked, but it'd be nice to finish (so to speak) without fear of a pregnancy. We don't like condoms, the pill gave me a headache after awhile and neither of us is ready to do anything permanent.

    Can you do an in-depth piece on NFP, which you always tout? I am a little skeptical, as you have 8 kids and your audience consists mostly of women who have multiple children or struggle with IF and have 0-1. I don't see much middle ground (lol!)

    But is this a thermometer, ovulation calendar thing? Get the rhythm until you "know" your fertile time? What do you need initially? Etc.

    What makes this different from the rhythm method of old? Because I have a few Catholic aunts and that method = pregnancy. Over and over again.

    How about a good, positive post to bring people to the table instead of another shock piece? :) (said with a smile, again)


  119. Wow, the collective wisdom and insight and experience here on this site is astounding! Thank you, ladies (and gentleman!) and I think it would be wonderful if you keep the advice coming, so please don't stop. College student, we are praying for you!!

  120. lurker, I'm on it! Thanks for the great comment and for patience while I get something together! :)

    (Truth be told, there are a lot more people reading the "shock pieces" than the other stuff, ha ha ha! But I totally get ya.)

  121. Lurker - never say never. I am sure Leila will go above and beyond in excellence covering the topic of NFP and answering all your questions, but in the meantime check out the Pope Paul VI Institute.

    There is a beautiful philosophy/teaching behind NFP that really allows for true freedom with our bodies without unnecessary use of contraception that inhibits and manipulates our very natural reproductive organs!

  122. College Student, you have stumbled upon a group of wonderfully compassionate ladies who want nothing less than the best for you.

    If I may speak for a minute from a secular standpoint, I beg of you: please do not feel like you have to have sex with a man to feel worthwhile. Like Simian said, the only way to be comfortable with your sexual experience is to have it come out of your choice, and your choice alone: not because everyone else is doing it (hint: they probably aren't 'doing it' as much as they say they are).

    In my experience, it is possible to have a loving, committed, sexual relationship outside of marriage that does not hurt either party involved. However, this is NOT the norm. Very few people regret waiting until they are married to become intimate with someone. I cannot say the same for the other way around. Please, please please please, find yourself a man who is willing to wait until YOU are ready, whether that be months or years from now, or on your wedding night.

  123. Lurker - run, don't walk, to your nearest bookstore (or and get a copy of "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" by Toni Weschler. It's essentially NFP for the secular crowd (she calls it the "Fertility Awareness Method). It really helped me "warm up" to the idea of NFP before I became Catholic.

  124. Lurker - I have used NFP to both avoid and achieve pregnancy since 2003. I currently have 3 kids, all of whom were conceived via NFP. I also have two babies in heaven, one of whom was conceived with NFP and the other of whom was a "surprise" (but not really since I'd been really lazy with charting even though we were technically avoiding).

    All you need to start is a basal body thermometer (available at any drugstore, my favorite is this one) and a chart. You can buy charting software, download a charting iPhone app (I use this) or just use paper. There are also free online charting apps, such as Fertility Friend.

    (Don't mean to write your post for you, Leila!)

  125. Also, Lurker, regarding your question about NFP vs the rhythm method, this is a good, concise explanation:

    "Myth #1: Natural Family Planning is just another name for the Rhythm method.

    Reality: Natural Family Planning (NFP) is an umbrella term for modern, healthy, scientifically accurate, and reliable methods of family planning. Modern Natural Family Planning (NFP) and the Calendar Rhythm Method are two different methods. The Calendar Rhythm method was developed in the 1930's and estimated the time of ovulation based on previous menstrual cycles. If a cycle was regular then the method was effective. However, this practice often proved inaccurate because of the unique nature of each woman’s cycle. In contrast, Modern NFP takes into account these variations and effectively identifies ovulation in each menstrual cycle. As a result, women with irregular cycles could now rely on Modern NFP to effectively identify their signs of fertility in each cycle. NFP methods are modern, healthy, accurate, and reliable. Furthermore, they have been validated by extensive scientific and clinical research."

  126. Mrs. M, so glad to have you back! I've missed you!

    JoAnna, the more info the better! Thank you for giving lurker some great resources! Anyone else is free to chime in, too.

  127. College Student, you're probably inundated with comments here so I will keep this short. I do get where you're coming from. I didn't get married til I was 32 and I was a virgin until I was 22.

    Having sex with "married douchebag" was precisely for many of the reasons you said. I didn't want to be alone and waiting for Mr. Right started to feel like waiting for the moon to turn up in my sock drawer. So I settled for Mr. Right Now, a friend of my roommate who used to come to our apartment every once in awhile and talk politics. He seemed like a decent guy and he found me attractive, and asked me out on a date one night. It was the worst mistake of my life. By the time I realized that he had a wife and kids I was too emotionally attached to leave the relationship. I felt incredibly guilty for it because I knew the harm I was causing yet having had sex with him started a chain reaction in my brain which led me to want to be with him more and more. I was unable to think clearly.

    This is a bell that can't be un-rung. once it's done, it's done. It becomes integrated into your life story and it reverberates into future relationships muddling everything and making it hard to make sound decisions.

    The Catholic way is so much better. It makes sense on a head-level and a heart-level. Giving someone access to your body is no small thing, it's huge. Catholics believe the human body is sacred territory, like a temple that God blesses and re-blesses over and over again by inhabiting it, by loving it, by creating it so marvelous in its intricate functions. One should always enter such a hallowed place with respect. Anyone who doesn't respect it should not be allowed in.

    Okay, longer than I thought. Oh well.

  128. College student,
    Jason Evert came out with a new book recently-how to find your soul mate witout losing your soul. I would have greatly benefitted from this book had it been written earlier. Praying for you.


    Lurker, check out this short intro video about Natural Family Planning. I am proud to say it's from my diocese, and I know several of the couples personally, including the two doctors. I think the outtakes are especially funny. :)

  130. My sister, who wandered from the faith as I did after a negative Baptist experience, has a 16-year-old daughter and we were talking the other day and she said that Becca (my niece) is "ready to have sex" and my sister was telling me, "I just don't think she's emotionally quite ready for it." I didn't know what to say. In today's society, we don't even tell our children, "Maybe you should wait until you're married. Save that most sacred part of yourself for the one you will marry." It's sad.

  131. Lurker - there are several methods of NFP! I definitely encourage you to check out "Taking Charge Of Your Fertility." I personally found much peace of mind by understanding how my body really worked! One aspect that distinguishes this from the rhytmn method is that NFP is about charting your unique fertility. There is no "one size fits all" type counting involved. You are looking for specific, scientific markers of ovulation in your own cycle. Whether you have a short cycle, an irregular cycle, a long cycle or a "text book" cycle, you can chart and identify when YOU are ovulating, not when the "average woman" may ovulate. :)

    My husband and I have been charting with the Creighton method for 5 months. We have not found it difficult to identify fertile phases, and we've even been able to identify a hormonal imbalance that we've are in the process of treating. We never would have known why I felt so bad most of the month if we hadn't started charting.

    I've had friends and family use NFP with great success, some needing to hold having children for years at a time due to financial difficulties.

  132. And College Girl... I second JoAnna's recommendation of Dawn Eden's book!! "Thrill of the Chaste"... good stuff!

  133. Wow I so appreciate the kind supportive comments, and how each of you have taken time out of your day to speak with me

    I have been crafting my response for quite some time, as your responses have been very thought provoking and ive needed a lot of time to think

    I agree on principle with everything that has been said. I don’t like this system. I’m sorry if I gave you the impression that I thought it was a good one.

    As a liberal I think the progressive sexual agenda has been an epic failure and personally I like your attitude better. I have had sex with two boys (both who I knew very well,) However, neither of these boys had romantic feelings for me, at least one would not have assumed responsibility in the face of a pregnancy (I use contraceptives diligently, but still), and as of now, both are bored and have lost interest in sleeping with me.

    I can’t use my experience to vilify unmarried sex nor can I blame culture for my actions, as my actions were esepcially dumb. I however am saddened that it is FAR more acceptable to have sex with someone who doesn’t like you than to be a virgin.

    Our attitudes are horrible. I’m almost embarrassed to admit this but after having sex and getting attached the first time the overwhelming recommendation from my friends was to sleep with someone else. The logic went like this: emotional attachment is bad and the more people you sleep with the less attached you are the more you don’t care if they like you, the less upset and crazy you are.

    I see the horrible sadness in this plan. I do. I also understand how well things have worked out for all of you, and the end result you have all described sounds divine. However , and I don’t mean to be controversial. I have been single all my life. i have to entertain the idea that i wont have a relationship

  134. Cool video. I recognize 2 of the couples from my parish.

  135. College Student, I totally feel for you. I honestly never thought I'd be married and I was usually the only one without a boyfriend. And no matter how much someone older or wiser told me I'd meet the right someone, I couldn't imagine it.
    All I can say is find things that only you are interested in and make you happy. I met my husband because I wanted to start a rock band and we started off as friends. We played music and just had fun doing what we love and the rest came later and now we have 3 beautiful little ones.

  136. College student, I hate, hate, hate that it is like that out there, and that that was your experience with sex. It just was not meant to be like this. I like the program that they are instituting at Princeton and other secular schools, called the Anscombe Society. It was founded by a group of students, including Rhodes Scholars, who were sick of the "hook up" culture on campus. It is THRIVING now, and has started branches on other campuses. I think you should get connected with THOSE guys! :)

    Sadly, women (and men) have been told a huge lie and sold a bill of goods. We were told that this "free love" crap would liberate and fulfill us, and yet it's mostly left broken, empty people in its wake. It's time to start a counter-culutral revolution. College student, maybe you could become a rebel and start a movement of healing. :)

  137. College Student,
    It is absolutely true that the more partners you have, the less you will be able to attach to them. Can you see how this will ultimately make it difficult for you to attach to your husband if you continue on this path? And, ironically, less attachment doesn NOT equal less pain. It is just a cover for deeper and deeper pain and less and less self respect.

  138. College Student,

    It is easy to despair, especially when our culture is drenched in it and people don't even realize it. Fight it, have hope.

  139. College Student - thanks for sharing your point of view and being honest.

    The pain you are experiencing is one we definitely relate to in our own ways. And although yes, many of us here have beautiful stories to share, I don't think any of us here would claim that choosing to wait or choosing to be true to ourselves and our personal dignity always equals an easier path or a perfect ending. We definitely don't want to paint a Pollyannish picture.

    I can however talk about the peace I experienced when I decide to live according to my own dignity. Husband or no husband... even if I never had sex for the rest of my life. I also decided to be proactive about my desire to find Mr. Right. I decided I was going to keep searching but in a way that if it worked out, it wouldn't have the issues my prior experiences had. Your friend is right about losing attachment abilities. Another person pointed out the complexities in her marriage thanks to premarital sex. I encourage you, if finding the right guy is really something you desire, to think long-term and avoid decisions that will hinder that dream. None of us here can promise he will be right around the corner, *but* at least you can say that when he does show up, you'll be emotionally available and ready to begin that journey!

  140. Dear College Student, I'm a high school student and I have to ask you a question. What advice would you give me or maybe your little sister if you have one? Would you say that, yes, it does suck that our culture is this way, but your virginity is just the price you have to pay to not be lonely? Would you tell your little sister to just get it over with so that guys will not see her as clingy? And if she became emotionally attached and was hurting would you give her the same advice your best friends gave you and tell her to move on to another guy? Or would you say that you made a mistake and that it would be better if she made sacrifices now so that she could save herself future pain? If you wouldn't want someone you love to treat herself in this way, why allow yourself to be treated this way? I'm grateful that you can see how much all these women care about you.

    With love,

  141. College student can I also recommend the Seraphic Singles website?

    It's written by a woman who realised that she might never get married and that even if she did that would be no guarantee that she'd be happy, if she couldn't already be happy when she was single. She gives lots of practical advice and even though she's now married (she met her husband when she was 38) she continues to write her blog.

    It's been a great help to me and my friends. She also has a book that you might find helpful.


  142. Hi College Student,

    Your description of college life reminded me of my experience in college (I graduated 2001 so it has been a few years). I went to a small college on the east coast where the male/female ratio was 40/60. I'd say that a good two thirds of the male demographic was gay, queer, bi-curious, what have you. So for the small number of heterosexual guys, there was a plethora of women. My friends and I often were frustrated at this situation. Hook-ups were pretty standard but it also seemed like the same people over and over again hooking up. And, most of the guys hooking up w/ girls were as immature as the ones you describe too.

    I graduated college a virgin (I didn't lose my virginity until I was 24) and I remember feeling a little jaded myself about the prospects of finding a good gentleman. But I want to tell you that post-college, dating is a very different game in my experience. There are more opportunities to meet different people and the discussion about virginity never came up with men I dated post-college. Instead of hooking up (which is of course, still possible if you look for it after college) men i met in my early 20s were more interested in having dinner, going to a movie, going bike riding, hiking, etc. Some of them I chose to sleep with, some not. The relationships fizzled and I moved on. I don't regret sleeping with the men I dated-we were trying to see if a relationship was possible and sex was merely one element of getting to know each other.

    But I'm not telling you whether to have sex or not with men you date, I just want you to know that the dating world is different after college and it is possible to go on dates (w/ or w/o having sex) and meet different people and have fun doing it. More importantly, before you fall into a serious relationship or get married, I think it's good to have fun with your girlfriends, travel, do thinks you've always wanted to do, read good books, find new hobbies, etc.

    Don't lose hope!

    -miss g

  143. Miss G, I appreciate your kind and encouraging words to college student.

    But this statement stopped me in my tracks: I don't regret sleeping with the men I dated-we were trying to see if a relationship was possible and sex was merely one element of getting to know each other.

    This is exactly what Planned Parenthood presents to teens about sex. Do you really see it that way? Is that what sex is about... "merely one element of getting to know each other," like going to dinner, playing Pictionary, talking politics and literature?

    I just find myself stunned. I mean, I know it's what the culture and Planned Parenthood pushes (on to children and teens, no less), but it still leaves me speechless and oh, so sad.


  144. Okay, I've had a moment to collect my thoughts and pick up my jaw.

    Miss G, how is the attitude of "sex is merely one element of getting to know each other" any different from the attitude of the "hook-up" culture which put college student in a situation which led even you tell her not to lose hope?

    Aren't the boys at college she describes just using sex as you describe? Merely one element of getting to know women?

    Help me see the distinction.

  145. Leila,

    I fear my follow-up will make you more sad but I guess I have to clarify further. By the time I was 24, I was really, really frustrated that despite a few dates, I had yet to come across someone I really liked and would consider having sex with. in fact, my self esteem suffered. So when I did meet a nice guy and we enjoyed playing chess, talking, watching movies and cooking together, I was more than happy to have sex.

    Sure the relationship didn't last, but I still don't regret the sex. I have a lot more to offer besides sex. And I waited. I didn't have hook-ups in college, I didn't fall into bed with the first guy who asked me out after graduation.

    This was just my experience, but having had sex the first time, I felt great. Yes, I was sad for awhile that the relationship ended, but I definitely felt better about myself for having tried to have a committed relationship and enjoying sex too.

    My boyfriend of 3 years certainly didn't have any hang-ups about dating or being with me because I'd had sex prior to meeting him. I don't think he'd care either way, quite frankly.

    -miss g

  146. Miss G, I truly like you (always have) and I appreciate your honesty. If I were secular, I would likely be right there lauding what I would see as your responsible choices.

    My question, though, was more general:

    Miss G, how is the attitude of "sex is merely one element of getting to know each other" any different from the attitude of the "hook-up" culture which put college student in a situation which led even you tell her not to lose hope?

    Aren't the boys at college she describes just using sex as you describe? Merely one element of getting to know women?

    Help me see the distinction.

  147. I can't speak for college guys and their sexual desires/needs. The description from college student reminded me of some immature college guys in my day. I think hooking-up is pretty much all about the sex and having a good time for a few hours. I would hazard a guess that the 'one element of getting to know someone' in a hook-up is having sex, this the term hook up.

    As for my own life, I didn't have hook-ups or one night stands with the men I slept with. We went out on dates and after hanging out a few times, talking on the phone, we had sex. I wanted to, he wanted to, we both got something out of it for sure and the relationship post-sex didn't dissolve immediately.

    -miss g

  148. I guess I'm asking if you think (or can see) that the hook-up culture is a product (a predictable, natural consequence) of the sexual revolution and the liberal view of sexuality? Because it isn't a product of the Catholic philosophy or worldview.

    Am I making sense?

  149. I can't speak for college guys and their sexual desires/needs

    Do you think it's morally disordered for a guy to use girls to satisfy their own desires or "needs"?

    Is using girls for pleasure a sexual "need"?

    Also, if people can use sex as "merely" one more way to get to know each other, why can't two children get to know each other by having sex? Or an adult and a child? Or a therapist and a client? Or, is there something inherently different about sex (which we all innately understand)?

    Off to blow dry my curly hair which is a long and arduous process.... I may not be back soon, ha!

  150. Dearest Lurker,

    From the bottom of my heart and with all honesty and sincerity, I want to emphatically share with you: I do not have 9 children because NFP has failed. We have 9 children because of the power and strength and love and inspiration that has come to us through our Catholic Faith and the sacraments, especially the Holy Eucharist. (We haven't actually implented NFP very much but when we have needed to, it WORKS.)

    The grace of God through the sacraments works miracles. HE works miracles. Every single one of my children is a miracle because I am not someone who would seem like she could handle a lot of pregnancies or children. ;) But I have and I do. It has not been MY POWER. I am extremely weak. Do not assume people with large families have them by default. It is often (and usually) the opposite. We are so in love and so full of love that it keeps overflowing and can't be held back in bearing fruit. We are almost "mad" with love for life, innocence, wonder, simplicity, and all that is good, true, and beautiful. That is: each new child. God bless.


  151. Nina, wow, you said that better than I could. I share your sentiments. Thank you.

  152. Thanks,sweetie. But no way did I say that better than you could. You are amazing. God bless!

    --Nina :)

  153. Hi 'College Girl' -
    Your posts bring to a light such an important aspect of this whole issue. I'm sorry you've been struggling, and I hope you find within you whatever you need to remain true to your own convictions. It took me 37 years to find someone willing (and eager) to wait for marriage. By the time I met him, I'd adjusted who I thought I should be and what I thought I should do to balance out my morals with my goals. To my great surprise, HE has made it clear that we should wait. I'm left inwardly rearranging my thoughts/feelings/priorities...and the more I reconnect with who I *really* am, and what I *really* want, the more it hurts me to realize how much I compromised before.

    Leila - I so love the Renoir allegory.

  154. Just a thought that keeps coming to mind lately. Sex -by nature - goes hand in hand with procreation. Our culture is turning more and more towards environmental/Green issues, healthy and natural food sources, getting in touch w/ our bodies and our earth and the empowerment of it all.

    Yet contraception, abortion, the TOTAL separation of sexuality from procreation - that goes so against this current. Women taking hormones to suppress ovulation - that's considered empowering? When natural family planning is an option? Of course, I'm focused on God so anything is a faith issue for me. But even for someone without faith - isn't the unnatural, unhealthy, 'unknown' aspects of birth control, and the fact that both sex and procreation now routinely occur without the other being a factor at all - isn't it disturbing on a 'natural' level, or not a spiritual one?

  155. I'm a 34 year old single woman and I'm a virgin. Believe it or not, I'm not a sister or a consecrated single. And I don't have 3 eyes. I date regularly and have been in two relationships that lasted over 2 years. I travel the world for work/fun living a pretty exciting life. I’m just trying to help you understand that I don’t fit that ‘singles for a reason’ club.
    For all the women out there who are single and trying to wait - it’s tough out there. I feel for you because I know the pressure. I know how being a virgin tends to make you feel like you have leprosy. I also know the feeling of 'why should I bother, it’s not like any guy I meet at my age will be a virgin?” Statistically I'm in a 3% group. I’ve been dumped and ridiculed. Some of my closest friends think I’m crazy. You think I’m making this up – for those of you that don’t practice chastity, think about the thoughts you had when you read the first sentence of my post.
    I also feel the frustration by everyone who talks about being so open to NFP or talks about chastity after they already walked the ‘other side’. “What do you know?” I often sarcastically say in my head when I read things like this. It’s easy to be preachy when both sides have already been explored in the fullest sense.
    I know a lot of you succumbed to that 'getting it over with' feeling. I have lots of friends that have. Some have regretted it, some have not. I have thought about it myself. I’m not ashamed about being a virgin and it makes me angry that I should feel that it’s something that I need to ‘get over with’. That is society talking. You know that same society that says it’s so open to all types of sexuality (except the non-active kind). That is what we are now subconsciously programmed to believe. That is the problem I have with PP’s programs and other organizations sex education classes like it. They have helped nurture society into thinking chastity is impossible. I am proof that it is possible. I think it’s absurd and anything BUT natural to get naked with someone I met at a bar, have sex, maybe or maybe not catch a disease like HIV, and potentially have to deal with a decision like abortion. That is ultimately what casual sex brings – worry death, illness, and passing self-gratification. Who thinks that is normal? Maybe you do. I don’t. Yet, in college today and when I was attending, the ‘walk of shame’ was celebrated!
    Being a virgin for me isn’t a Catholic guilt thing. Sex doesn’t scare me and I am quite comfortable talking about it. I am confident I would have zero guilt about sleeping with someone I love because it’s so accepted in today’s society. When it comes down to it, I always go back to my relationship with God. Who He is to me and how much He loves me. That can’t be found books or taught in a class. That is a humble searching of the heart. Regardless of what you think about sex – the Catholic way or not – what does God want from you in regards to sexuality? Honestly and introspectively ask yourself, what is your driving purpose in having sex with that person? And if you don’t believe in God and you are just trying to be a good person on this earth and live it as joyfully as you can, does casual sex promote or deter in creating a world that is respectful, loving, disciplined, responsible, and self-sacrificing? If it does, great. PP can go ahead and keep doing their thing. If it doesn’t, why are you fighting so hard to keep the full truth from reaching the most innocents in this world? The most unfair thing in my life is having people think that its awful that I'm still a virgin. I’m 34; I can handle feeling like a leper. Most 12, 13, and 14 year olds, can’t.

  156. Well, I actually think Planned Parenthood is awesome. And as for me, I was a very promiscuous person and casual sex was the norm for me (my bag had more condoms than a pharmacy). However, all that ended last August, when I met the love of my life. We aren't religious (his family are protestant, while I'm a "bad" catholic), but we managed to connect in all aspects. We do not use birth control 'cause I can't tolerate hormones, and he had some health issues that caused him to have a low sperm count. I was already married, so we just did it three weeks after we met.

  157. jay_jay, welcome! Maybe if you stick around, you'll become a "better" and then a "good" Catholic? ;) Most of us here were "bad" Catholics at one point or another (read some of our stories, at the top).

    Why do you think PP is awesome? Have you read the book Unplanned yet, by a former director of PP? If you'd like, I'll have a copy sent to you....


  158. I became a bad catholic after many years of research about the true face of my old religion. But that's not why I'm here (you can always email me on that subject). I haven't read that book, but I know what's about, and if she felt grossed out by a medical procedure (abortion IS a medical procedure after all), then she shouldn't be working in a medical facility at all. Abortions can be necessary, and I think is up to the mother's choice to do that. Would I have one? Maybe; it will depend on the circumstances. I will not have a reason now 'cause my life is in order, but things could change. About the way PP talks to teens? I'm glad they do it that way! Kids and teens must be informed on all the alternatives they have to engage in safe sex. They will do it anyways, so they better be informed. I'm happy for PP; I do think they're doing a good job, and I go to their centers in order to get routine tests, since they take the military insurance (military clinics are always full, so I would go to PP instead).

  159. I became a bad catholic after many years of research about the true face of my old religion.

    jayjay that is interesting! If you read my newest post, answering Choice, maybe there will be some new info for you there? I was happily surprised that Choice herself commented, and was apologetic for her misrepresentation of Catholicism.

    abortion IS a medical procedure after all

    Abortion would only be a medical procedure if pregnancy were a disease. But since pregnancy is not a disease, it doesn't need a "cure". Abortion isn't medicine, because killing isn't healing.

    For the record, she wasn't "grossed out by a medical procedure", she was horrified to watch a struggling baby die in front of her eyes, as she assisted in the killing. It's a big distinction.

    Kids and teens must be informed on all the alternatives they have to engage in safe sex. They will do it anyways, so they better be informed.

    In light of this, I would love if you would read the following posts I wrote (Three parts), on that very subject. I would appreciate your feedback on what you think of my response to the sex educator's points:

    Thanks so much!


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