Tuesday, October 4, 2016

Why Trump will get my vote



Well here it is. The post that many people have asked me for. I'm sure I'll take a beating from some, but the stakes are too high for me to care much about that.


The necessary caveats to begin this post:

-- Trump is not a stellar man. He is not a man of virtue. He is a blowhard and a jerk. I am not defending Trump as some sort of saint or model of goodness.

-- I voted for Marco Rubio in the primaries. I would have been fine with most of the other candidates as well, and would have voted for them over Trump. The primaries are where we must fight hard for the purest, best candidates. But now the primaries are over, and we are discussing the general election, where it is a truth that either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump will be our next president (believe me, I understand the consternation).

-- I personally do not ever vote for non-viable third party candidates in the general election. I work with what we have on hand. If I wanted to vote for someone who cannot win, I would vote for my husband. Or my mom. Or my friend Danya. I would vote for myself, even, since I agree with everything I believe in, ha ha. As it stands, I want to do more than simply make a statement, so I look at the viable candidates in any election and vote for one of them -- the one who will do the least damage to my Church and my family and my country -- because we are going to get stuck with one of them, for sure.

-- You, dear reader, are not obligated to vote for Trump. <--------- Did you see that? Because if I get comments saying, "But, Leila, Catholics are not obligated to vote for Trump!" I am going to refer you back to this bullet point. Please respect the fact that I have made this very clear, with a little red highlight and all. There is no mandate that you vote for Donald Trump. Do whatever your well-formed conscience tells you with regard to voting.

-- Having agreed that you are not morally bound to vote for Trump, I don't see any possible moral way that a Catholic can give one's vote to Hillary Clinton. None. Maybe some of you can see a way. I cannot. However, going along with my third bullet point, I will say that if it were Hillary running against someone like Hitler, I would vote for Hillary in that case. But we don't have a situation like that. (And if you believe Trump is a Hitler-figure, then we have nothing more to talk about.)


Now that I am done with the caveats, here is why Donald Trump will get my vote:


For me it's very simple. I vote policy. This is politics. Hillary's policy positions are diametrically opposed to all I hold dear and believe. Trump's are much more in line with my own. Read his policy position statements, read the Republican Party Platform and compare it to the Democrat Party Platform, listen to Mike Pence, his vice presidential pick.

Whether or not Trump is personally pro-life, he is at least not anywhere near the slobbering, slavish love of abortion that characterizes Hillary and her party. Not even close. And while politicians greatly tend to flip-flop and gravitate toward whatever position is politically expedient, I'd rather vote for the guy who is flip-flopping and gravitating in the right direction!

Trump is not determined to take away religious freedom and conscience rights of Catholics. Note well the brand new parts of the Democratic Platform, and see the rapid progression of Hillary's party in actively working to erode religious liberties and conscience rights. All her people will stand firmly for this inverted, perverted view of "religious freedom" that means Catholic teaching is bigoted discrimination that will not be tolerated. Trump's people do not and will not uniformly and aggressively stand for those things.

A huge question for me is, "How can I preserve my religious liberties just a little bit longer?" <------Please re-read that question. This is vitally important to me, and it should be to every Catholic. Even Pope Benedict warned the US bishops of the "grave threats" to religious liberty in America*, and the same US bishops went so far as to establish an annual Fortnight For Freedom to address the ongoing and growing crisis. This threat to Catholics began and continues under Democratic rule. When it comes to retaining our liberties, Christians have more of a shot with Trump than with Hillary. Never in my lifetime could I have imagined a sitting president going to court against the Little Sisters of the Poor, for example. These are the Democrats, the "progressives," Obama and Hillary's people who did this, not Trump's party.

Of course there is the issue of the judges the next president will appoint -- including, we tend to forget, all federal judges, hundreds of them, not just those on the Supreme Court. These judges will be ruling our lives, promoting abortion and LGBTQ "rights," and limiting our religious liberties for decades to come, long after Hillary is out.

I often think of the Cabinet, which includes the the Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, and the Attorney General. Think about the power of these Cabinet heads! And every last one of them will be of Hillary's mind -- pro-abortion, pro-gay "rights," and against conscience rights of Catholics. Trump's Cabinet heads would not be 100% left-wing "progressives," not even close. The Vice President is a member of the Cabinet, and under Trump, that would be pro-life, pro-marriage, pro-family, pro-faith Mike Pence. To think that the rest would be secular "progressives" is just irrational.

And goodness, the military! Under Obama it is being slowly wrecked, being turned into an LGBTQ social experiment now, and getting so much worse with every new "progressive" directive, which are coming faster these days.

Trump wants smaller central government (unlike Hillary), which means less government interference in the lives of regular Americans. In other words, Trump and his people are more in line with the Catholic principle of subsidiarity, which is a subject Catholics don't tend to know about, but should.

Also, unlike fiscally irresponsible Democrats who promise "free" stuff to everyone and higher taxes, I personally believe in lowering taxes across the board, which Trump has promised. A tax cut will specifically help Middle America, which has been so damaged by, among other things, the Obamacare nightmare.

So for me, this vote is a no-brainer. I'm not the least bit troubled about my vote for Trump considering that the alternative is Hillary, the Democrats, and all her people. Personally, my conscience would haunt me if I did not do everything to defeat Hillary. The secular "progressives" are systematic and they are determined. If we let them in to rule us for four or eight more years, they will become even more emboldened, and nothing will stop them.

Some people, even people of goodwill, think that Trump is just as bad as Hillary. I cannot fathom it, how anyone could think that a Trump administration and the people he would put in place could promulgate even half as much evil as Hillary and her people would. The damage to this country and to Catholics would be unprecedented. So for me personally, it is my moral obligation of conscience to vote for her opponent, so as to mitigate the evil she and her appointees and staff will accomplish.

There is much talk about Trump being an ass, a jerk, a horrible man. He is a blustering blowhard, as I've mentioned many times. So were many of our presidents. So are many of our relatives (if you are Mediterranean like me!), and that doesn't reflexively mean they are politically wrong or evil. Some of the blowhards in my life are near and dear to me, and they would never "blow up the world" because of that temperament. I'd vote for a blusterer long before I would vote for a (publicly) calm but sinister person.

I have actually never seen a Catholic voter guide discussing whether or not a candidate is a jerk. Instead, Catholic voter guides talk about policy. The most important policies concern intrinsic evils like abortion, euthanasia, the rights of parents to be the primary educators of their children, conscience rights, and protecting natural marriage, i.e., all the things that Democrats are on the wrong side of. Apart from the intrinsic evils (the "non-negotiables"), the rest of the policy issues (immigration, education, welfare programs, healthcare, etc.) are issues of prudential judgment, meaning, Catholics are free to disagree with how best they should be handled. See the video below for more information on that.

Honestly, if using a slur or a bad word is enough to disqualify a presidential candidate, then Catholics pretty much can't vote for anyone, ever. I believe a lot of this anti-Trump over-the-top rhetoric is a way to keep Catholics out of the public square. After all, this is politics, where corruption and sleaze is the norm. If we may only vote for near-saints, then we lose our place at the table, our way to shape policy that affects us. It's the attitude that kept a decent man like Romney out of the presidency -- good Catholics wouldn't vote for him! -- and kept Obama and his terrible, anti-Catholic policies in. This is politics and not theology, friends, and we are not canonizing a saint here.

Some assume that I have angst having to vote for a deeply flawed candidate. Nope, none at all. The different between Trump and Hillary is just that stark. For those who do have angst in casting a vote for Trump, I remember well the words of a holy Opus Dei priest who told me years ago that once you make a decision (that is within the moral law), stop worrying about it. So in this case, I would advise people to make the decision, vote and move on.

One last thought: If I can't convince you to vote for Trump in order to mitigate the evil that Hillary and the Democrats will surely bring to us, perhaps Fr. John Lankeit from the Diocese of Phoenix can at the very least show you why you may never, ever vote for Hillary Clinton and put the Democratic Party in charge. It's a spiritual warning that we would all do well to heed, including those Catholics who are actually encouraging votes for Hillary as a better alternative to Trump:



That needs to go viral, don't you think?


Okay, I'm happy to discuss in the comments, as usual. Please just have patience and mercy, as my son and his wife are visiting from out of town, and I am soaking up every minute I can with them. 

Above all, please pray for our nation, because we are in dire straits. As Catholics, we'll take whatever suffering comes, of course, but let us not enable and assist those who actively oppose us. We are an Easter people, not a suicide people, after all! 



_____

*The words of Pope Benedict to the American bishops, four years ago this month:

It is imperative that the entire Catholic community in the United States come to realize the grave threats to the Church’s public moral witness presented by a radical secularism which finds increasing expression in the political and cultural spheres. The seriousness of these threats needs to be clearly appreciated at every level of ecclesial life. Of particular concern are certain attempts being made to limit that most cherished of American freedoms, the freedom of religion. Many of you have pointed out that concerted efforts have been made to deny the right of conscientious objection on the part of Catholic individuals and institutions with regard to cooperation in intrinsically evil practices. Others have spoken to me of a worrying tendency to reduce religious freedom to mere freedom of worship without guarantees of respect for freedom of conscience. [Again, this was all about Obama and the Democrats. No one else is doing this. Hillary is quite set to double-down on the "progress."]





** Update: Trump addresses Catholic concerns, here.

301 comments:

  1. Thank you. I've been waiting to read what your thoughts were. You've given me a lot to think and pray over. It's just a sad state in which out nation finds itself.

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    1. Totally agree Ann-Marie. However, if Hillary were to win, America and our religious freedoms will be a complete mess.

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    2. I agree Ann-Marie. I am so depressed about where we find ourselves as well. As do most people I know, which leads me to really wonder how the heck this happened in the first place. How did we wind up with the choices we have. Seems very fishy to me. After reading all the media decides to share with us, I have determined that both Presidential candidates are pretty rotten to the core about a lot of things. They are FAR less than perfect. I am going to vote for which VP I feel the most in line with; for me it's Pence, because I am wondering how long the new President will go without being impeached or arrested for something. Pence appears to be a very moral man and speaks clearly and calmly. He seems to have a very even temperament. Still need to research him more, but that is my first impression. Hopefully, if Donald does win, he will be smart enough to use him to politically navigate the system. Just my opinion.

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    3. According to factcheck.org, abortions accounted for 3 percent of the nearly 10.6 million total services provided by Planned Parenthood clinics in 2013, according to its annual report.

      Some services it provided in addition to abortions were:

      4.5 million tests and treatment for sexually transmitted infections
      3.6 million contraception related services
      935,573 cancer screenings including breast exams and Pap tests
      1.1 million pregnancy tests and prenatal services

      http://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/planned-parenthoods-services/

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    4. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/09/14/watch-live-action-fact-checks-planned-parenthoods-claim-that-abortion-is-only-3-percent-of-its-services/

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    5. The Blaze is a far-right ultra conservative site that fabricates many of the conspiracies that Evangelicals like to throw around. It's not a neutral, objective arbiter as is FactCheck.org (A Project of The Annenberg Public Policy Center). So, it's like comparing apples to grape seeds.

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    6. Which, of course, we should believe from the words of someone posting under the name "incognito".
      The source article comes from "Live Action", as incognito is well aware.

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    7. Absolutely right about The Blaze. Glenn Beck is a charlaton and his Blaze is going down in flames.

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    8. For each patient who walks in the door at Planned Parenthood, multiple services are performed. A CBC counts as one service, a test for AIDS counts as one service, a PAP smear counts as one service, a pelvic exam as one service, a manual breast exam as one service, a month's supply of birth control pills as one service. So a person getting an abortion would receive many "services" only one of which is the actual abortion. This is how they come up with the 3% figure. The best way to think about the place of abortion in Planned Parenthood's group of services is to look at how much money they bring in each year from doing abortions. The profit per abortion is over $300, and I can assure you they don't make that much money from doing a CBC (complete blood count). They perform more abortions than any other organization in the country. I am an RN and I have spent time in their clinics and my spouse also worked for them while doing a residency in family practice. The information I have shared is readily available and documented from multiple reliable sources.

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    9. Incognito - even if I were to accept Planned Parenthood's figures, which I don't (the organization's penchant for lies and misrepresentation have been well documented), "3 percent of the nearly 10.6 million total services provided" represents 318,000 human lives snuffed out in a single year. That is more than one baby killed every two minutes of every hour of every day of the year. 318,000 lives the potential of which we will never see expressed.

      Those lives represent the entire span of the human condition. We may have lost some on the horrific end of mankind - the likes of Ted Bundy or the Boston strangler - but given the distribution of people across our population, it is a certainty that we lost hundreds of thousands of good, salt-of-the-earth American citizens who would have grown up to work, have families, and been a blessing to their friends, neighbors, community and nation. And, just going on statistical distributions in the population, we lost a few doctors and scientists. We may have lost a great leader like Martin Luther King, Jr., who could have helped heal the growing racial strife in our country. Or a doctor/scientist on a par with Jonas Salk, who would have made the breakthrough that enabled mankind to eradicate cancer.

      But we don't know. And we will never know, because those 318,000 babies and all of their potential were wiped out before they ever drew a single breath. I pray God's mercy is indeed infinite, because we need a lot of mercy to cover this national sin.

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  2. As a former member of the NeverTrump crowd I eventually came to the same conclusion as you, only you express it far nore clearly than I could have. Thank you

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    1. Same here James. There is too much at stake in November to sit home because my favorites were not chosen.

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    2. I really don't know how anyone that is a woman, vet, feels for the mentally handicapped, moral, Christian or isn't a racist could vote for this man. He is vial, he speaks sexually about his own daughter. He insulted Marchado, and his wife is a NUDE model. He says he will have all American companies back on US soil, I hope he starts with his own first. He is hot tempered and mean. He will not be good to work with other leaders of the world. Abortion is one thing I hope you don't soley base your vote off of this. I am Catholic and always have been but I am sorry to read this article disappointed me as woman and as a mother. He has no repect for you, hope you aren't overweight either because he has issues with that. Wake up people he will destroy our government.

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  3. i agree with a lot of this but what bothers me is the defense that "well no one is a saint!" as a way to make one feel better about voting for Trump. It's an attempt to normalize his immorality and deviancy so you can feel better about voting for him. This used to be called moral relativism. So just say Hillary is awful, so i'm voting for Trump. full stop. no need to drag others through the mud to give you a warm and fuzzy about voting for him.

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    1. I don't believe that it is way to normalize anything, it is a statement of fact. None of us are saints and yes so many are good people and there are many who are not that never show how devious and evil they are. With Donald Trump, you see a flawed man, just like you, just like me, just as every human person is. No one was drug through the mud. If the statement had been made "Hillary is awful, so I'm voting for Trump" then there would have been a barrage of criticisms and questions asking why. She laid it out and I for one appreciate the fact she did. Laying out reasons for instead of making a statement.....damned if you do and damned if you don't. Humanity!

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    2. If the DOJ/FBI/media were not protecting Hillary, she would be in prison like other men who have done much less damage to America. Hope you find the way....

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    3. Michele find what way? If you are a "true" Christian not sure how you can defend Trump. Read my earlier comment. The man is a monster but tell yourself what you need to so you sleep better at night. Especially a woman of faith? He is not a religious man. Jesus cared for the sick and the poor. Trump cares about himself and the rich!

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  4. Interesting, Kat, but I don't see Leila dragging anyone through the mud. She avoids commenting on so many of Hillary's faults, and stays with those that are most crucial to Catholics.

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    1. "There is much talk about Trump being an ass, a jerk, a horrible man. He is a blustering blowhard, as I've mentioned many times. So were many of our presidents. So are many of our relatives"

      ^^ that's what I am referring to. I don't think that is an accurate assessment at all. It's like Guiliani saying on Meet the Press that 'everyone has a history of infidelity". I'm tired of defining down and saying he's is just as bad as all others so it's cool to vote for him. It's not accurate.

      And to be clear, I'm not voting for Hillary.

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    2. I'm not okay with his behavior but the fact is, he is the Republican nominee. In our two party system voting for an independent, minor party candidate, or a write in is almost like throwing a vote away. Sad but true.

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  5. Good post Leila. I don't agree with all but much more rational reasons than I've seen from others.

    I don't think DT has a clue what he will do if elected about anything. I don't trust a word he says. He scares me. He doesn't know anything about our enemies.

    I think HRC knows what she will do. I don't trust a word she says. She doesn't scare me. She knows about our enemies.

    My conscience is clean regarding my vote. I am faithful Catholic who is voting for HRC.

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    1. Liza - how can you consider yourself a faithful Catholic when HRC mandates intrinsic evils in direct contradiction to the Catholic faith and teachings?

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    2. Hello Liza,
      Leila posted an excellent video with her post by a priest who says it like it is. As faithful Catholics we must realize that if HRC is elected we will have no hope of containing abortion any time soon. Millions of innocent lives will be lost if she is elected. That is a realization that we must face knowingly as we cast our votes.

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    3. I'm not Liza, but I justify it through pragmatism. For instance, I believe firmly that a. abortion will never again by made fully illegal in the US, and b. Democratic policies tend to lead to *fewer* actual abortions than Republican policies. In my view, the best choice is the one that actually results in fewer abortions, not empty promises to ban it that never come to fruition. There's nothing "un-Catholic" about that.

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    4. Well you are correct about 2 things:
      1- HRC knows what she will do
      2 - She knows about our enemies.

      Problem is she does not have good intentions for America. Be careful what you wish for. God Help America!

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    5. Keep in mind obama and hillary are huge fans of partial-birth abortion.

      An abortion in which the person performing the abortion, deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus. (18 U.S. Code 1531)

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    6. Donald Trump is a nationalist, protecting our country first, and the other 16 primary candidates WERE NOT; they are all globalists. Their voting records were proof of that, and I believe solidly in my heart that Mr. Trump is the man to protect the unborn, protect our families, our nation, our military, nominate the appropriate SCOTUS appointees, protect our borders and be the one to say NO to abortion and GOODBYE to Cecile Richards and PP for good! Remember there are very good "Catholic" members of our Senate and House who voted "YES" on the Omnibus Bill, including the authors Mr. Ryan and Mr. Cruz, which funded not only Obamacare, but hurt our Little Sisters of the Poor, AND funded Planned Parenthood. If we were perfect, we would be called Jesus. We have no business judging Mr. Trump for a past when he was NOT a politician and does not have to be held to a record as they do. Go Trump. God bless America. HE is sending us Cyrus.

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  6. I believe that a (federal) government that governs best governs least. The legislative branch will not have the same drive to cooperate with a trump presidency as with a Clinton presidency. Also, the media will keep trump accountable while Clinton would get a pass. Therefore, trump will likely get my vote.

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    1. The media has long been the propaganda arm of the Democrat party.

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  7. I watched the homily. Disagree that faithful Catholics have to vote regarding abortion laws. Many ways to end abortion that have nothing to do with laws. My focus and concern is centered around the mom (and dad if he's around). Make their lives okay, the baby is saved. The democratic party is concerned about the mother in ways I support. Not perfect and really bad in some ways but more in common with my interests.

    If I were a millionaire it might be different because then I could afford to pay for everything for the moms and their kids that I help. Sometimes the dads too if they are around. I can't afford to do that though. I need the welfare programs to help them or I won't able to do what I do. It takes a lot of time for some to become self supporting. While the babies saved is a tiny proportion, if we could help every mom facing a pregnancy that isn't a joyful situation, many more would be saved.

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  8. Sounds like you're basing this on the theory that a bigger social safety net automatically means a decrease in abortion. However, not only has that not proven to be true, it's been proven to be false. In 1996, when Hillary's husband signed into law the biggest rollback (decrease) in the social safety net since the Great Depression, abortion rates did not jump up in response. In England and Wales, which have robust social safety nets, abortion rates are climbing. This means that there is no clear connection between the net and abortion rates.

    It is also against Catholic teaching for the state to expand to take over all of society's responsibilities. Both Popes Leo XIII and St. John Paul II warned against that in their encyclicals Rerum Novarum and Centisemus Annum. Pope St. John Paul II actually called such state intrusion detrimental to human energies.

    Finally, abortion is considered by the Church to be the gravest intrinsic evil of them all. Without the right to life, all other rights are irrelevant. Hillary used to---to her credit---say that abortion should be "safe, legal, and rare". Now, she no longer says "rare". That is troubling, and her promise to roll back the Hyde Amendment is also troubling, as it is about more than funding abortions by taxpayers, but also includes a conscience protection clause that would protect health care providers and professionals from being compelled to commit abortions.

    Along with that, Hillary also has kept quiet about her votes to send the US to war in Iraq and to fund the building of a wall along our southern border. Her poor track record as Secretary of State is also cause for concern. How all of this can be overlooked in the decision-making process of who to vote for is puzzling. Yes, Trump is problematical. But so is she, and trying to hold her up to say her expansion of the social safety net will insure lower abortion numbers in the US is at best a question-begging premise and at worst demonstrably false.

    Peace.

    http://shamelesspopery.com/abortion-rate-by-party/

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  9. Thank you Leila for sharing this article and homily. I was once a never Trump participant. I am voting for him after careful consideration of policies and platforms; just as Fr. spoke about. The image of the tiny toes, feet, arms, legs, fingers and organs of teeny babies in a pan is ingrained in my mind. If I voted for HRC, I could not live with myself, I would have their blood on my hands. Each of us will be accountable for our vote. Thank you again for the share and thank God for our faithful priests.

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  10. LizaMoore, Fr. Lankeit actually decimated that argument in the video. It's not about "if only women had more money, they would not abort". Not at all. And honestly, we are called, unequivocally as Catholics, to do both: Provide for the needy (esp. mothers in crisis) AND not allow laws in our land that target and kill innocent human beings as an end. You know this. I would not want to stand before God after voting for a women who is doing everything in her power to promote and celebrate the death of millions of children, AND who vows to continue to take away the rights of Catholics. It's a very, very scary spiritual place to be, as Fr. Lankeit (our cathedral rector) lays out. At the very least, for the sake of your soul, vote for neither.

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  11. Kat, not at all. The reason I said "he is not a saint" is because it appears to me that many Catholics truly believe that they will find the mythical "virtuous politician". And if he exists, that is wonderful! I will vote for him every time he is viable! If that saintly one is not viable in the particular election I'm voting in, I will vote for the one that will do the least harm (mitigating evil). Otherwise, I may as well just vote for my mom or my parish priest every election and just essentially take myself out of the political process. I'm not willing to do that. Catholics are not Jehovah's Witnesses -- we are still good with participating and being "in the world" though not of it.

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    1. Stated this way, you have no argument from me. It's just not how you said it in the article. My issue, at large, is what I see as a defining down of what is acceptable in a candidate to normalize Trump. I have a problem with it.

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    2. Be very careful how you interpret the media and the spin. what you hear is often false, so false that it's ridiculous. I have done a lot of research for over a year now, and what you hear and see is nothing like what Mr. Trump actually is. I have gone back decades and looked at what he said. He is still saying the same thing, protect this country and the American people. Now, what Hillary Clinton has done to the American people is an entirely different story, and if you don't see that or know what's truth there, if you haven't done your research, then I can no longer speak to you about any of it. She is worse than dangerous, and that is the truth.

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    3. Trump is truly a monster! He only says he is pro-life so that he can become dictator. He is a racist, bigot, hateful, narcissistic man who thinks only of himself. Beware of this man! I cannot in good conscience vote for either candidate. This is the worst possible election in the history of our country. She is a criminal and he is a narcissistic liar. God save America from what we have brought upon ourselves.

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    4. I should add that I am very pro-life and I support our local shelter. I am a faithful Catholic and I cannot vote for either of these candidates, they have absolutely no redeeming qualities. I might add that Trump's tax plan has been shown to help only the very rich, such as himself. I am active with the social justice ministry in our parish church. Being pro-life means so much more than life in the womb - it includes caring for the children we have, those who are poor, the hungry and the homeless, the sick and the mentally ill and the elderly. I truly do not believe Trump cares for anyone but himself, based on his own words throughout the entire political campaign. He is an abomination. And Clinton doesn't care about life either, which is very evident. What is a faithful Catholic to do in such a situation? Certainly it is just as evil to vote for Trump as for Clinton. Such a sad commentary on the status of this country.

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  12. Leila, I would also consider the profound *opportunity* of a Trump presidency. The next President will nominate at least one and possibly as many as four SCOTUS justices. Even if the number is only two, Trump's two justices would create a majority pro-life Court that could repeal Roe v. Wade. If it's three or four, we could see abortion abolished by this time two years from now. So, let's not drag our feet on election day!

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    1. This.
      Roe v Wade is a travesty of a law based on incomplete knowledge and needs to get rid of asap.
      It's far too dangerous a risk to vote for Clinton.

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    2. Even "Roe" which is not even her name, said she will spend the rest of her life trying to overturn Roe v. Wade, as she is PRO LIFE. She was used by the democrat party and continues to be!

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  13. I disagree. I am trenches so to speak with these women/girls. Many cannot financially support the baby. They have to eat and have a roof over their heads. In many cases they have other children already that have eat.
    V

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    1. I am also in the trenches and many abort despite being able to support their children. They just don't want to do so.

      I'm sure there are plenty of women who abort after convincing themselves they lack the resources to raise a child but you cannot deny less and less women are going through the motions of trying to rationalize their decisions these days.

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  14. LizaMoore,

    That's where crisis pregnancy centers come in to help those young women out; killing the unborn is never the proper response.

    Also, this is where I want to be able to provide stronger chastity education. Concisely, if you can't financially afford a baby, maybe you shouldn't engage in the act that creates the baby.

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  15. Margo, chastity is all well and good. Completely support it. I don't care if the women I am helping are big sluts or virgins that were raped. It doesn't matter when you are helping them keep their babies or putting them up for adoption rather than aborting.

    Your attitude may perpetuate reasons why women/girls have abortions. They may feel its easier to get forgiveness from God rather than face people who look down upon them with judgement.

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  16. I'm saying to decrease the number of women/girls who have unintended pregnancies, let us get to the root of the issue so as to stop this cycle of women/girls finding themselves in undesired pregnancies. Let's stop it before it happens.

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  17. LizaMoore, that is an unnecessary slam against Margo. She is in line with the Church here. What are you doing to make abortion illegal? You are obligated to work towards that end. What are you doing in that regard?

    I don't know a single Catholic pro-lifer who does not in some way support (financially or with volunteering) crisis pregnancy centers. The VERY help that these girls/women/families need, and that the Democrats are trying to shut down, while continuing to feed million upon millions of dollars to Planned Parenthood. How do you address that?

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    1. When it comes to sex, I have yet to read or hear from anyone that women have 100% control over it. All a woman needs to say is, "Put it on, or these (point to pants) stay on." It is that simple.

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  18. A commenter left this comment and deleted it, but I will post it anonymously, because it's important. It's for LizaMoore:

    "Even though she is pro-abortion right up until birth? Even though she says that Christians must change beliefs that don't line up with the current LGBT+ agenda? Check out the non-negotiables, I believe HRC violates every single one."

    I hope you will address that, but my primary question is what are you doing to vote or work against legal abortion? That is an obligation explicitly: To change that unjust law.

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  19. Margo, have you ever been directly involved? Crisis pregnancy centers help women get on welfare.

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    1. Crisis pregnancy centers are always in need of new people to help in this fight. Ours is currently looking for a trained, certified, licensed sonographer as ultrasounds are a very large part of changing the abortion minded. There are classes coming up for training new people to mentor, counsel and assist those who choose life. Our Abstinence Counselor goes to the local schools, junior high, high school and college and we have seen excellent results from those classes. The letters written to him are heartfelt and sincere. He has changed many minds. Of those women who come to us some are on welfare, some have a great support system and a few do get help finding welfare, but the majority are not there to go on welfare.

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  20. Thank you for a clear argument.
    Re: the non-negotiables – is this based on something that the bishops or the Vatican have put out, or popular catholic sites such as catholic answers or ewtn? The latter two are not official doctrine. As far as I know, there is no official doctrine with a list of issues such that one is never ever allowed to vote for candidates on the wrong side of the issue. If there is, then I am willing to be corrected.
    My reasons for saying this: as an example, we are in a situation where there are increasingly few viable openly pro-life candidates. Where I live, in Canada, for example, 2 of the 3 major political parties demand pro-choice allegiance from their candidates, and the 3rd will allow individual candidates to vote their conscience, however, when in power, this party actively shut down any proposed bills on abortion, effectively preventing members from voting their conscience by preventing them voting at all.
    It seems to me that single issue voting has failed the pro-life movement. Why? Because once candidates know that the slightest nudge in a pro-life direction will gain the whole movement, it is no longer in their interest to be pro-life. It is in their interest to be (or at least appear to be) just slightly less pro-choice than their opponent. So you end up choosing between a party that is 100% pro-choice and one that is 99% pro-choice (if it could be expressed as a number). And in the meantime, you may be choosing to vote for a party with a whole other number of issues that you disagree with; or worse, start defending a whole bunch of terrible policies and then actually believing in them.
    That being said, thank you for not presenting this as a single-issue choice.
    There is also one issue that matters to me that I think you haven’t mentioned in your piece. Personally I think a major issue facing the future of the United States (and Canada) is the shrinking middle class and the increasing pandering of government to wealthy individuals and corporations at the expense of the poor, who now are paid such low wages that they need to be subsidized by government handouts in order to make ends meet. As I recall, in scripture, denying a labourer his just wages is listed as one of the sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance, and yet I see very few Catholics speaking up about this issue. I am disappointed in the democrats for choosing Clinton because she seems to depend on Wall Street and wealthy corporations for her funding/support and therefore I doubt her ability to really help average and poor Americans in this area.

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    1. In a 2006 speech to European politicians, Pope Benedict XVI said the following:
      As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the principal focus of her interventions in the public arena is the protection and promotion of the dignity of the person, and she is thereby consciously drawing particular attention to principles which are not negotiable. Among these the following emerge clearly today:
      Protection of life in all its stages, from the first moment of conception until natural death;
      Recognition and promotion of the natural structure of the family as a union between a man and a woman based on marriage and its defense from attempts to make it juridically equivalent to radically different forms of union which in reality harm it and contribute to its destabilization, obscuring its particular character and its irreplaceable social role;
      The protection of the rights of parents to educate their children.


      (I will respond later to the rest, and I'll put it at the bottom of the comments.)

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    2. I am surprised that there is nothing here about the guidance and speeches of Pope Francis! While I do not think he contradicts anything said or written by Pope Benedict per se, he has made numerous statements to suggest we are called to consider much more than just this list, and he has also spoken out against the policies that Trump appears to support. This does not seem as clear cut as the homily or some of these other arguments make it out to be. Indeed some even interpret the Holy Father's statements as being more in line with HRC than DT, for example: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/28/pope-francis-us-presidential-race-democratic-party-catholics

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    3. Your best point is "the shrinking middle class and the increasing pandering of government to wealthy individuals and corporations at the expense of the poor, "

      As a woman from Canada, you may not be aware that most of the proor in America live in the inner cities and are minority. Those cities have been ruled by Democrats for decades who then brainwash the voters into believing only Democrats wish to help them out... yet the Democrats always deny these neighborhoods Charter Schools which prove to be a much better education option. In some sense the Democrats keep these poor people in these inner city ghetto "plantations" and they see no way out. It is very sad.

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  21. Abortion is never going to be illegal. If the Supreme Court had been inclined to overrule Roe, it would have in PP v. Casey. Instead, the Court simply modified the constituitonal test regarding abortion laws. Voting for Trump will not change abortion laws. There are more pressing issues in this election than this faux belief that voting for Trump will end abortion. That said, I don't know how anyone can in good conscience can vote for HRC. She's the most corrupt candidate we've ever had. At this point, I'm inclined to vote for someone other than Trump or Clinton. My conscience will be clean if I decide to go with a write-in vote.

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    1. That is a logical response. The fact that many Catholics/Christians have hyper-focused on abortion means that the blinders keep them from seeing everything else- like international relations, income gap, the corporate takeover of the government. All spurred on by the political parties who are using the American public as pawns in their pursuit of power. Classic magician trick, while you are looking at Clinton/Trump and abortion or guns or immigration you are not looking at your Senators or Congressmen or election funding.

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    2. Abortion is not the focus for so many of us. It is a major component to most of us because we believe when respect for life at both ends of the spectrum comes about, most other things will fall into place. The focus is the Supreme Court, Constitution and our rights which include the right to life. We must take care of our country first, rebuild our military, take care of our own poor and homeless. Immigration is a real problem, especially when it comes to those who infiltrate the true refugees. At some point we will not be able to care for those who come here as refugees.

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    3. That is good for you. But please do not be upset or complain when Hillary appoints the most liberal Supreme Court Justices and they push abortion and transgender rights beyond your comprehension.

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  22. Very good article. Thank you! I was previously "NeverTrump" but these times are just too perilous, as you say. A clown and an antichrist! We'll go for the clown. The other is just too scary.

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  23. I have been so conflicted regarding this election over the past months, but I have come to the conclusion that the only logical vote will have to be Trump, as much as I loathe him. But as you said, we're not canonizing a saint. This will be the second hardest decision I have ever had to make. I have posted your article on FB, and several of my friends have picked up the flag and reposted. May we all remain very close in the love of Christ in these most difficult of times. I am grateful to be on the winning side, even if means that we will have to suffer. I'd rather suffer on this side than on Hillary's! May God bless you with His peace!

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  24. PRG, actually, the states have passed many common sense abortion restrictions, and the feds and the Democrats in the White House and the courts have stopped them at every turn. So, abortion restrictions have come to the states. Get the Democrats out of the White House.

    And if you read my article, you would likely see that I didn't mention much about the abortion issue, although that is huge. I mostly talked about other considerations. So, I'm not sure what your comment was addressing?

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  25. Jeanette, well said!

    Munchie Mommy, I agree that the middle class is getting squeezed. In my opinion, it's the Democratic policies and taxes which are doing that. That is why most of middle America will not vote for Obama. The Democrats are supported by the very rich and the very poor. The Dems help the rich and simply promise stuff to the poor (but never actually help in any real way). So, another reason to get the Democrats OUT of control. It's sick.

    I agree with you about the parties and the single issue, but the thing to do in America is to get the best candidate in the primaries. We can do that, but so far we have not. I think because even the pro-life candidates are so "establishment" that people are just sick of it. They had the ability to stop Obama so many times when we handed the Republicans the House and Senate, and they did NOTHING.

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    1. http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/10/17977/

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  26. Liza, I have a few questions I'd like to ask, because I really do wonder how a Catholic voting for Hillary would answer them.

    First, what do you think of the $1,000,000 per day that Planned Parenthood receives from the government? How likely is it that that amount will be reduced under a Clinton presidency? Doesn't it bother you that the party that claims to care for women and children, especially the poor, is so tied to an organization that kills children? Wouldn't a party that truly cares about children spend that one million a day on something that actually benefits children? I truly don't understand how you could not have a problem with that, could not even question whether the leadership of that party truly cares about children.

    Also, what do you think of the things that Leila has said about religious freedom under Clinton? Do you think that won't impact the Church, including its essential services to the poor, the sick, and children including the education of children? Do you think Leila is wrong about that matter?

    I hope you get a chance to address those questions.

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  27. Here is an analogy I heard. Door #1 says "man eating lion". Door #2 says "Perhaps man eating lion". Which do you choose? I'll take Door #2.

    BTW,
    Trump = Door #2

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  28. As a former Catholic, I say kudos to you for voting. What is sad is how you have stereotyped Democrats based on Republican propaganda telling you how we are. No one knew Hitler was "Hitler" when they blindly followed him. I know that deep rooted Republicans will never vote for a Democat and insinuating that it is Clinton you dislike is most likely highly inaccurate. You wouldn't support any Democrat for President. That's okay.
    Here is a the truth about Democrats
    1. We don't want to abolish your religion. We just want everyone to feel free to worship or not worship as they see fit. To do so means that NO RELIGION should create legislation. That includes same sex marriage, abortion, birth control, etc. If your religion doesn't approve that is fine, Democrats don't want to make you marry someone of the same sex, have an abortion or use birth control. You just have no right to tell others they can't.
    2. Democrats don't want your guns. We would like to work to reduce/eliminate death by firearms and that means not allowing "bad guys" to obtain guns.
    3. Democrats don't want to give everything away. But we understand that people need a hand up- not a hand out. You will never eliminate people abusing government programs whether it be welfare or the tax code.
    4. Keep in mind that there is more to being President than appointments and homegrown issues. The President MUST interact with the opposing political party, other national leaders, foreign dignitaries, etc. I am hoping that you can see that as well. DO you have faith that Trump would be respectful and present the USA in the best light to those factions?
    My question to you is simply this- how would you react if your candidate loses and Clinton wins? Because as a very liberal Democrat, if Trump wins I would hope he would do a good job. Hoping a President fails is not something I could ever do.

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  29. One party encourages violence against those who think differently than you while another party seeks to bridge the aisle and develop better policies based on the variety of ideas and opinions that exist in the world.

    One party seeks to perpetuate racism and discrimination while the other seeks to provide equal opportunity for all of God's people.

    One party seeks to discriminate based on religion while another seeks to protect the constitutional freedom of religion for ALL God's people.

    One party seeks to deport and block off resources to God's people in need; men, women, and children from war torn nations who are dying and need the help of the most powerful nation in the world. Another party seeks to help, to open our arms and embrace the poor in spirit, the mourning and offer them aid and a chance at a life of dignity.

    One party seeks to perpetuate death and violence through keeping violent weapons in the hands of individuals with vile hearts, while the other party seeks to value human life by making one of the means of violence a little harder to obtain for people with vile hearts.

    One party seeks to perpetuate the economic inequality in our country leaving innocent Americans in a broken system that only increases the wage gap and makes people poorer while the other party seeks to reach out a hand and pull those Americans up so they can stand on their own two feet and make a dignified life for themselves.

    One party cannot acknowledge that innocent black Americans are dying on our streets simply because of the color of their skin, that we're having to teach our American children how to not get shot by people who are supposed to protect them, that mothers of good, peaceful, innocent boys have to wonder and worry whether their son will come home alive. The other party seeks to improve the system so that all Americans feel safe, secure, able to do their jobs and live their lives well.

    One party seeks to tear down women, their leader setting the example that it is ok to objectify women, to bully women, to treat women as if they are less than if they do not conform to bigoted standards. The other party seeks to empower women, to regard women in equality with men, and to provide for their health and well being in a positive way.

    I am 100% against abortion and although I am horrified that abortion happens, I would be equally as horrified if we cut off the only source of female reproductive health that some American women have access to. And I am horrified to think that just because one party is pro-life, it excuses all the other policies and opinions that tear down the dignity of other groups of God's people.

    I am a white, female, middle-class Republican. But I will be voting for Secretary Clinton in November. And I will be attending Mass every week and meeting Jesus in the Eucharist every week in good conscience.

    Can you seriously tell me that supporting a man like Trump and a party like the Republican party, the way it exists now behind Trump, respects the dignity of ALL human life? Can you seriously tell me that supporting Trump and the party as it exists behind him is really what Jesus would do if He were here now on earth?

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    1. Wow... But please do not be upset or complain when Hillary appoints the most liberal Supreme Court Justices and they push abortion and transgender rights beyond your comprehension.

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    2. Krystine, kudos to you for being honest and true to yourself.

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  30. Kristyne, you have repeated every single talking point of the secular left, the LGBTQ agenda, the socialist agenda, the feminist agenda, and yet you want us to believe that you are a Republican? Honest question: Why would you ever have been a Republican with your belief system? I am truly curious. Can you tell me in what way your policy beliefs are any different from the average secular progressive?

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  31. Wow, Kristyne, I thought at first that you were talking about the Republican Party. This one: "One party seeks to discriminate based on religion while another seeks to protect the constitutional freedom of religion for ALL God's people." You think that describes the Democratic Party? Based on what, exactly?

    And the Democrats care about the lives of minorities? You do know who's been running Chicago for decades, right? Are you impressed with the job they're doing? They are failures at improving the lives of minorities. Please convince me otherwise.

    "The only source of female reproductive health"? What are you talking about? You seem to like to talk in code. If you are referring to Planned Parenthood, then go ahead and say so. By "reproductive health" you can only mean abortion. Because the *only* medical treatment that you can get from Planned Parenthood that you will have a hard time finding elsewhere is abortion. There is nothing else *at all* that other doctors can't provide, and thankfully we are still at a point where most doctors don't want to provide abortion. It is disingenuous of you to pretend that women can't get health care other, than abortion, from anyone but Planned Parenthood.

    And the rest of your comments - care to give examples? This is so much like a relative of mine by marriage, who says all conservatives are racist, yet he knows us and could never identify us as racist. It's as though his saying it somehow makes it true, or that the reality in front of him can be ignored. And yes, all the pro-life people I know respect the dignity of ALL human life, and we are not all Republicans - I'm not. In accusing pro-lifers of not respecting the dignity of ALL human life, are you claiming that Democrats do respect all human life? Sorry. That claim is ludicrous.

    Why would you bother being a Republican when you fawn over what you claim the Democratic party to be?

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  32. TG, welcome! You are clearly new to this blog. First, please put all your comments at the bottom of the thread, as I instructed when you post.

    Also, of course I would not vote for anyone who adheres to the Democratic party platform. I've written many posts about it. But today I am talking about *this* election. Surely you can understand that.

    "Freedom of worship", not freedom to live our faith in our lives and businesses and the public square, correct? That's what you and the government want to allow us, yes?

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  33. "And if you believe Trump is a Hitler-figure, then we have nothing more to talk about."

    TG, did you miss that I wrote this in the original post? I believe you made comparisons between Hitler followers and Trump followers. Perhaps you should bow out now? Or should I give you a second chance? ;)

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  34. As a current Catholic, I'd like to say kudos Leila, for your charity. My wisenheimer meter has tilted and I wouldn't know where to start. We may have reconsider this whole send the kids to college idea. Just can't chance it.

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  35. 1 of 2

    First off, let me say that my post, like yours, refers to this 2016 election, not to Republicans, conservatives, Democrats, or progressive in the larger sense. I certainly did not mean to generalize my statements to make it seem like I believe all Republicans or pro-lifers hold these beliefs. I just simply laid out what I’ve seen Trump and his surrogates do and say over the last several months and I was trying to be clever by following the format of the homily posted in the article. Apologies that my post came off as an affront.

    Leila, I am admittedly a moderate Republican and align myself mostly with the party's fiscal policies. I am also a social justice advocate as I manage a food pantry and see 100 different people a day struggling to make ends meet in our country. The reason I cannot support the Republican party in this election is because they have presented no fiscal policies that I support, and Trump, and the party that is behind him in this election, support an “us and them” mentality that erodes the concept of social justice and doesn’t even allow a conversation to be had about how best to treat and care for all US Citizens and allies.

    Sharon, I’d like to respond to each of your points that you lay out.

    First, Trump has said that he wants to ban all Muslims from entering the country. How is this religious freedom?
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-calls-total-complete-shutdown-muslims-entering/story?id=35631255

    Chicago has a gun problem, which is why homicides are so high. The article below refers to gun laws that were in place in Chicago that were repealed and ineffective because of the ease to purchase guns in nearby states. There are other problems, yes, but controlling access to guns could be a big step forward. Can you point me to the Republican party’s solution to this problem that doesn’t include the unconstitutional practice of stop-and-frisk?
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/18/us/chicago-murder-problem.html


    Yes, Sharon, as hard as it is for me to say, I am referring to Planned Parenthood when I say the only access to female reproductive health. This is something I still struggle with as a Catholic who does not believe in abortion, but the reality is, Planned Parenthood provides a lot of affordable female health care that has nothing to do with their abortion practices. Who am I to say that just because I have access to a good health care system other women shouldn’t? Not everyone can afford top notch or even average health care. And not all health care comes with quality female health professionals. I recently had my HMO doctor tell me that all women ovulate on day 14 of their cycle exactly, no exceptions. Which is obviously false. And I had to argue with him that a certain health issue I was having was centered in my uterus and not something in my urinary tract, kidneys, or bowels. And it turns out I was right. Thank God I was educated in my reproductive health. Can you imagine, though, if that doctor was your only option when it came to caring for your reproductive health and you weren’t considerably educated in your reproductive health? How long do you think it would have taken that doctor to find out what was really wrong with me if I hadn’t been self-educated about female reproductive health? If it was something serious, would it have been caught too late? It tears at my heart for me to say that Planned Parenthood does good, because they also do a great evil. Yes, I believe more women should be encouraged to put their children up for adoption. No, I don’t believe the federal government should fully fund Planned Parenthood. But I can’t condemn women to inadequate health care until we have a solution that’s better than cutting off women’s access to affordable reproductive health care. I also can’t let this issue excuse the fact that so many other social injustices would be allowed under Trump.

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    1. You are amazing! Thank you, Kristyne!

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    2. Not so fast, Lea! How about you answer some of the questions posed to Kristyne in light of our Catholic Faith? Thanks! Looking forward to hearing more from you (and her).

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  36. 2 of 2

    Also, Planned Parenthood is not legally allowed to use their Title X federal funding to perform abortions and the Medicaid funding can be used for abortions only in cases of rape, incest, and life of the mother. And I know contraception is also against the teachings of the Catholic church, but please remember that contraception, in the form of birth control pills, is used to treat a whole host of female reproductive issues that include hormonal imbalance (that can lead to depression), ovarian cysts, PCOS, and PMDD. I am currently on a progesterone/estrogen combination birth control pill to treat ovarian cysts.
    http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/05/429641062/fact-check-how-does-planned-parenthood-spend-that-government-money

    Next, again, I’m not saying all Republicans are racist or that pro-lifers don’t respect the dignity of other human life, simply that the leader the party has chosen and his surrogates have encouraged racist behavior, disrespected the dignity of human life, and suggested violence against people who have opinions that differ from their own. There are countless examples of this but here are some examples for each:

    Racist behavior:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

    Disrespected the dignity of human life: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/03/draft-dodger-donald-trump-implies-ptsd-sufferers-are-weakness.html
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2778a6ab72ea49558445337865289508/ap-how-trumps-apprentice-moved-capitalism-sexism
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-eugenics_us_57ec4cc2e4b024a52d2cc7f9

    Violence against those who think differently:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kicker/oh-yes-donald-trump-defin_b_9461016.html


    Leila and Sharon, thank you for your responses and the opportunity to dig deeper and provide some examples. I know it’s hard to understand what it’s like to not have the luxury of choice, to be struggling day to day, to wonder if you’ll have enough food to get you through the month. I thought very much like you until I started seeing face to face, in person the people who are really in need in America. I now meet people struggling every day, good men and women who are stuck, who are discriminated against, and just need a little help to get on their feet. They don’t need someone to treat them as a “them” that’s taking rights and freedom away from others, because they’re not. I couldn’t look the people I help every day in the face if I voted for Trump. I know you feel differently, but to me, I couldn’t meet Jesus with a healthy heart and soul if I decided to give my vote to Trump and the party behind him.

    Please let me know if you have any other questions for me. Happy to answer them :)

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    1. The federal dollars do subsidize abortion,though it may not be directly used to preform an abortion it overall makes the cost much lower if not basically free. It's like an urgent care getting federal money and they can use it for everything but x-rays, let's say, but everything else is free they then can afford to make x-rays cheaper than market value. Also I see you're taking hormonal birth control I don't mean to seem overly scrupulous but I hope you're abstaining from martial relations because they would be considered illicit and sinful while taking birth control even if that isn't the intent to prevent conception.

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  37. With all due respect, I think what you're saying is a bit of a cop out. One of my closest friends in the world runs the St. Vincent DePaul in Phoenix, which is one of the largest in the country. He, along with our greater community, is able to serve literally *millions* of meals to thousands of needy people every year, on top of the free medical care and free dental care and help for the homeless, help for elderly unemployed, help for the working poor, etc, etc, etc. And he, his wife (who is one of my best friends) and many, many thousands of Catholics who support them are conservatives who would never *think* to vote for a Democrat. Same with my friends and colleagues who staff the crisis pregnancy centers here that the Democrats would shut down. They despise the tenets of Democrat Party, and yet all they do every day is help poor women, desperate women, desperate families. So believe me, it's quite possible to reject the evil that the Democratic Party does and still be "all in" as far as helping the poor and looking them in the face. It's possible to be fully Catholic in belief and practice, and not have to compartmentalize and justify support for Planned Parenthood, abortion, or any of the other things you are trying to justify.

    It's late, and I'm happy to go over some of your other points tomorrow. As I said, I have my son and his wife in town and we are going to do some fun stuff out of the house tomorrow so please forgive if my answers are not timely. But hopefully what I said is something to chew on for now. I encourage you to come fully into the practice of your faith and reject intrinsic evils outright, as well as the Party that supports so many intrinsic evils openly and proudly.

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  38. Kristyne, thank you for replying. But your defense of Planned Parenthood doesn't hold up. Planned Parenthood does not provide comprehensive care for anyone at all, and nothing you've described from your own experience shows that it does. It's a great thing when we are familiar with our own bodies and can take an active role in our own care, but you have not shown that PP does that for anyone. For me, and for many, many women, being encouraged to use the Pill as though it cures anything has been a huge negative in our (white privilege?) care. We aren't told that the truth, that the Pill cures nothing. We aren't told that it is a Class I carcinogen, and we aren't encouraged to know how our own bodies work. I can't see anything you've said about PP that shows it is a positive to women or that the care given there, other than abortion, can't be received elsewhere. The money given to PP could go to clinics that provide truly comprehensive treatment to all members of a family - clinics that don't intentionally kill an entire category of human beings. It is alarmist and dishonest to indicate that women won't have health care if PP stops receiving government funds. That is simply not true.

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    1. Sorry for typos - should be "We aren't told that truth, that the Pill cures nothing." Need a little edit button...

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  39. Hi everyone! Please, please, follow the rules of commenting. If you need to answer a specific person and quote, please just cut and paste it and put it at the bottom. I cannot keep going back to find where the last person posted (I get the comments in my email inbox, first). Thanks!!

    To PJ (and I'm not even sure where your comment is; I couldn't find it), I have to ask incredulously: You used an opinion piece to make your case? From The Guardian? That's not a great tactic here. Give facts, quotes in context, specifics without spin.

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  40. LizaMoore, Kristyne, PJ, how would you respond to the last part of this? (It's something I wrote years ago, and linked this bishop's excerpt, and more, in the post)

    All other issues (for example, immigration, education, affordable housing, health and welfare, environmental issues, etc.) are considered policy issues. They are issues of prudential judgement, about which Catholics are free to disagree.

    As Bishop Thomas Olmsted of Phoenix has clarified in a national guide for Catholics called, Catholics in the Public Square (Shepherd's Voice):

    On each of these [policy] issues, we should do our best to be informed and to support those proposed solutions that seem most likely to be effective. However, when it comes to direct attacks on innocent human life, being right on all the other issues can never justify a wrong choice on this most serious matter.

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  41. I certainly did not mean to generalize my statements to make it seem like I believe all Republicans or pro-lifers hold these beliefs. I just simply laid out what I’ve seen Trump and his surrogates do and say over the last several months

    You'd be in line with Clinton if you said this, so why do you worry about over generalizing? She certainly doesn't worry about it. She just said at the debate that she believes ALL people are racist in some way. That's pretty much verbatim. Are you racist in some way, as she claims? Is this the kind of blanket generalization slur-throwing banner you want to march under? She’s also called Trump supporters "deplorable" and even "irredeemable”.

    She’s further said minority males (Af Am) are “super predators” who “need to be brought to heel”. So if you’re going to lob the race attack at Trump, you should realize Clinton has been highly offensive with race remarks and disgusting assumptions as recently as the debate. Being fair in assessment would be the right thing, no?

    She is casting judgement and disparaging human beings so that it's easier to label and accuse... that kind of rhetoric is all she's got and it's slimy and outright false.

    As to your links, they're all very liberal and it's pretty common knowledge that NYtimes/Huffpo, CNN, NBC, ABC, and the MSM are an extension of the democratic party – a mouthpiece- so linking to their pieces doesn't bolster an argument. If you think this is "journalism", I don't know what to tell you. It's been an issue this whole campaign-- the extended arm of the Dems is the mainstream media. Hit pieces with outright twisting of facts doesn't equate to news.

    Next, again, I’m not saying all Republicans are racist or that pro-lifers don’t respect the dignity of other human life, simply that the leader the party has chosen and his surrogates have encouraged racist behavior, disrespected the dignity of human life, and suggested violence against people who have opinions that differ from their own.

    Again, Clinton doesn’t have a problem painting with a broad brush, castigating people who disagree with her and calling them every label she can come up with to demean, diminish, and insult them, so why disagree with her since you’re supporting her? And everything you wrote here is exactly what she does and what her party does—NOT what Trump does, says, nor supports.

    Check out the latest story (few days old, only) on a 17 yr old kid who was beaten so badly by the “tolerant” left, that he’s now fighting to see his 18th birthday- simply for his pro-police stance which he posted on facebook.

    And look at another very recent story of a man who was literally attacked by a gang of “tolerant people” (Clinton supporters) and beaten for wearing a red “make America great again” baseball cap, in silent support of trump. These people saw him, decided to gang up on him, and beat him into oblivion. I’m not posting links as you can find these very recent stories if you search.

    Why hasn’t she called out these acts as heinous hate crimes against American citizens? Why hasn’t she denounced this behavior against those who merely share different opinions than her own supporters? And when have you ever heard Trump agree with treating her supporters the way his supporters have been treated, so harshly, so wickedly? If you make the assertion, you should back it up, as I just did about her.

    She’s not about uniting at all. She wants the division and the smear because she doesn’t want the real issues front and center. Her whole campaign strategy is one of “attack and deflect”. This is very obvious.

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  42. Stop and frisk is NOT unconstitutional, so please stop spreading that falsehood. Gun ownership does not lead to more crime. If guns were taken away tomorrow, you'd still have the underground market who wouldn't relinquish their guns, now what? You want people to have no right to protect themselves?

    Now who's sounding "unconstitutional"?

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  43. Re: Benedict XVI and non-negotiables.
    I agree with the pope's comments that these principles are not negotiable as principles. But it doesn't seem that this speech was intended to instruct people who they are not allowed to vote for?

    And again, I am saying this for two reasons.
    1. Because we have largely reached a point in politics where we don't have a viable candidate that seems seriously interested in protecting any of these.

    2. I dislike the way other sites put out voter guides of their own but act like it is a mortal sin if you pick someone who doesn't match up on all of the non-negotiables.

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  44. I disagree again like I did when Romney was up. The defeatist attitude of having to take what is given us (Trump/Hilary or Romney/Obama) I think is why this keeps happening. We as Catholics keep refusing to vote outside the box. We choose the lesser of two evils instead of the whole right. It reminds me so much of when people would test Jesus to see how they could wiggle in the confines of Jewish law, and he'd blow them out of the water by saying go beyond the law. He never tried to work with the Scribes, Pharisees and Sanhedrin, he went straight to the people. We didn't try to reform Britain, we the People made our own Country. If we band together and stop rejecting the vote for candidates who don't get the party vote, maybe we can stop this crazy dance. Don't like the moves, step out of the dance.

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    1. Amen Amen Amen! I replied much less eloquently down the comments list, but I one hundred percent agree. It's disturbing how many Catholics are making this false choice to go with Trump. I'm going for Castle I think he's a great proponent for states rights. Down ticket is going to be a mess this year too. If we all just voted our conscience and ignored the parties we'd be in a much better situation. The two party system will be our doom in the U.S. the good news is we're pilgrims and this is temporal and as long as we keep the faith we shouldn't worry..... Unless we need to go to confession.

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  45. I'm not Liza, but I justify it through pragmatism. For instance, I believe firmly that a. abortion will never again by made fully illegal in the US, and b. Democratic policies tend to lead to *fewer* actual abortions than Republican policies. In my view, the best choice is the one that actually results in fewer abortions, not empty promises to ban it that never come to fruition. There's nothing "un-Catholic" about that.

    ?? Wouldn't this fall under "theory" more so than actual pragmatic application or a realistic approach? Wouldn't the more pragmatic solution be to support the party which is pro-life and seek to minimize abortion policy (however you define it) through healthcare revision and government tax revision and job creation and all that ties together in the larger picture, rather than to shrug and say, "Well, it looks like the dems do less harm so here's my vote."? I'm just looking for the logic in this. I don't see it.

    By the way, which policy specifically are you referring to? The dems fiscal policies actually drive abortion rates (poverty increases abortion). Dems don't give people (esp minorities) a "pragmatic" (to use your term) way out of poverty, because they increase taxes, kill jobs, and basically pander for the minority vote every 4 years while promising hand-outs if they just pull the lever for the dem candidate. They don't give those in poverty actual help, they give promises of "stuff".

    Look at the poverty rate. Look at that rate of increase since Obama's first term to present. Look at the 8 million more ppl (!) on welfare under his leadership. Clinton promises more of the same-- worse.

    Look at the depletion of real jobs. Nothing here anymore but service jobs-- manufacturing jobs have moved out; and horrible trade deals, business regulations and govt taxes, have killed our economy. All of this means that there are millions more people living in poverty and abortion rates tie to that problem directly. Moreover, PP directly targets these groups for abortion profit. Moreover, PP has direct ties to the Dem party. I don't understand how you can posit that the Dems policy (whichever one) is somehow less damaging, pragmatically speaking or otherwise, to the unborn.

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  46. The whole issue could be summed up quickly: Supreme Court, and you have it way down on your list, should go right to the top, and you're right the other judges as well....if you want a leftist anti relgigious rights court for the next 35 years and lower court fed. judiciary as well, vote for Clinton, or, just as damaging, don't for for the GOP ticket. Trump has provided his conservative approved list, approved by Ted Cruz and other committed social conservatives, and Trump's favorite judge is Scalia...Get it, got it, good, go vote.

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    1. Agreed Patrick! The "Catholic" voters who vote for Hillary will be scratching their heads in a few years, and asking why their Kindergarten kids are learning about gay sex and tranny bathrooms at school. The Liberals are pushing religion/morals/ethics completely out of America. God Help Us!

      Delete
    2. He also said he'd like to see his sister, a raging liberal, in the supreme Court.... I guess you're a betting man.

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  47. @TG

    I have no doubt you very much believe your list. I was going to reply to each of your points but decided to focus on the most important. You said the following:

    "1. We don't want to abolish your religion. We just want everyone to feel free to worship or not worship as they see fit. To do so means that NO RELIGION should create legislation. That includes same sex marriage, abortion, birth control, etc. If your religion doesn't approve that is fine, Democrats don't want to make you marry someone of the same sex, have an abortion or use birth control. You just have no right to tell others they can't."

    I have the right to vote. I vote based on my Catholic conscience. I advocate for public policy and laws I believe are moral and just. That is my right as an American.

    And that just kills you, doesn't it?

    You want me to be nice to your buddies. Stop picking on mine. That's how democracy works. Call off your dogs and we'll consider calling off ours.

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  48. Vote your conscience in November.... But please do not be upset or complain if Hillary wins and appoints the most liberal Supreme Court Justices and they push abortion and transgender rights beyond your comprehension.

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    1. My conscious tells me they're both awful. You're thinking here leads me to think you believe the president is akin to a king in his powers. Good luck with that! Castle 2016 for more States rights!

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  49. Keeping inner city poor people down and with no access to a good Charter School is NOT Christian.

    Keeping poor people dependent on welfare for generations is NOT Christian.

    Pushing religion out of schools and the public square is NOT Christian.

    Pushing an LGBT agenda down our throats is NOT Christian.

    Pushing America-hating migrants who do not want to be here into America is NOT Christian.

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  50. It is the attitude and beliefs of the far-left Catholics and the current liberal Jesuit "pope" that cause me to question my 50 years of being a Catholic. God Help Us!

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  51. BTW both obama and hillary are huge supporters of PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. In case you are unaware of the sickening baby-mutilating procedure...

    An abortion in which the person performing the abortion, deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus. (18 U.S. Code 1531)

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  52. BTW this is what we will see on a frequesnt basis under a hillary win...

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10/05/brussels-two-police-officers-stabbed-terror-neighbourhood-rail-station-evacuated-bomb-squad/

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  53. I agree with a number of the points Leila and others have already made in favor of Trump. I wanted to add one more.

    Ever since Trump started gaining traction, the public discourse has shifted. People are speaking up and speaking out these days. The Political Correctness and badthink Lelia mentioned in a previous post is being challenged on a daily bases. People are mentioning God and Christ so much more.

    This change started happening before Trump came on the national stage but it was much smaller and often successfully shouted down. Now people are buoyed, they don't feel alone or hopeless. That is bigger than Trump and it will continue long after Trump is gone. But Clinton and a good portion of her followers will do everything they can to destroy that spirit. (And pass speech laws outlawing "hate speech")

    I know so many Americans want peace at any cost. We don't want to give up our wealth, our security and our lazy existence. But I want my friends and my family to attain heaven. In order for that to happen, we need to cause some major damage to the current culture. The first that needs to come down is the idea that any who support morality are oppressive bigots.

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  54. On a happier note.....

    I wanted to share this because so many of the bubble readers have offer me advice and prayers over the years. My husband and I are finally expecting our first child! The little one is due in early April.

    Thank you again for all the prayers and support.

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  55. I can't stomach voting for Trump myself, and it bothers me most that Catholics don't see this man as apathetic to all things holy. He's the quintessential lukewarm "Christian". He is metaphorically rewriting what it means to be considered a conservative and if you are a liberal making Christianity into a joke and at the same time he manages to paint himself as the most greedy capitalist and destroying humility. At least when the church faces persecution like it will under Hillary it will necessarily thrive and more saints and martyrs will come out of it. If Trump gets in he's going to lull us back to sleep falsely reassuring the naïve that religious liberty is safe even though he could give less of a crap. I also find the mentality of the two party system only and to hell with a third party vote let alone a Forth or fifth destructive. You end up with the worst possible choice imaginable which is unfortunately the one we face now with Hillary and Trump. I for one will try and advance liberty and hopefully help and contribute to the riddance of this two party system. I'm voting for Castle because he's for federalism and or States rights I might even go for Johnson because he at least talks about the tenth amendment.

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  56. SaintToBe, but that's just the thing. I don't want to "step out of the dance". Catholics should be in the public square, they should have a voice, they should have a place at the table. What you are suggesting is making ourselves irrelevant and sorry, not interested.

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  57. Wow, so many assumptions about what Trump will most assuredly do. People have apparently already solidified the dashed line on their chart from Trump - - - Hitler as a sure reality. So many people must have a crystal ball to read into the future.

    How about this: We already know what Clinton will do. We don't know what Trump will do, but it most assuredly won't be all that Clinton will continue in Obama's footprints.

    People don't know what Trump will do, yet they castigate him by charging him as lukewarm and all of this morally superior posturing.
    How about we let him prove himself?

    Boy, this is rich:

    No one knew Hitler was "Hitler" when they blindly followed him.

    Let's level the field then. Every time a person likens Trump to Hitler, to whom shall we liken Clinton? Posit someone. Then we'll watch you defend that. Ridiculous.

    We already know how Clinton operates politically. So it's rather more accurate to compare her to an historical figure of a similar type of your choosing --if that's your thing-- than it is to to line up Trump as a type of "Hitler". You have nothing to base this on -- no public record of his to base this on-- because there isn't one. Rude assumption. Smear is the typical way of the Dem's. Sad.

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  58. Austin, I'm sorry there've been a lot of comments and I'm working off my phone, but did you actually address any point of my post?

    Also, it is not a requirement of the Church that a couple abstain from relations during the time she uses hormonal birth control *for reasons other than contraception*. If that were true, then a couple would have to abstain anytime any medications or risks for miscarriage were high.

    StarFireKK OHMYGOSH!!!!!!!
    Congratulations!!!! I'm so happy for you!

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    1. Leila@LittleCatholicBubble

      You kinda freaked me out with your post, lol. I had no idea he was a nut, it was just the first to clearly lay out the point, but upon investigation it would appear he's not a good source. I did however find a better source although not great. I think from what I've researched though is that this is a gray area with regard to the hormonal contraception and having marital relations durring, and I lean towards never allowing the death of an unborn child unless as a matter of fact the life of the mother is equally in jeopardy. I found a great post on catholic answers that sums up this predicament and another article which on page 7 expresses my point more clearly. There appears to be no official teaching. I again easily accept the answer on page 7 in regard to this issue. It just makes sense.

      I really would appreciate your feedback on this.

      The article:
      http://www.madisondiocese.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=84YRbIWrOWc%3D&

      And the forum: The specific response is #11

      http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=8754259

      Delete

  59. I thoroughly enjoyed reading you views, which were extremely lucid and layed out well.
    From the beginning I knew I would vote Republican but now am determined to do so.
    God bless you

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  60. Austin and others, I want to make this very clear: Any link to RON CONTE will be immediately deleted. He is a NUT and there is no way he represents Catholicism. His misleading, faulty works will never be allowed here. They confuse people every day and I will not allow that on a Catholic blog. So, the post has been deleted. Use another, reliable source if you want to make your case. Official sources. Thanks.

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    1. Sorry I'm an idiot. I posted my response on the previous response you gave me.

      Delete
  61. Unknown, our government was set up to favor no one particular religion precisely because it was set up to protect religious liberty. History is quite clear on this point. The government has no right at all to tell a Catholic what is or is not an acceptable practice of his or her faith.

    And if you think that freedom of religion is going to stay strong, you have not watched the news or followed the court cases lately. I'd say that the Little Sisters of the Poor and many other Christians who had to go to court against Obama and his ilk are not quite so sure they are as free as they used to be.

    For a very short list of problems Christians now face that were never a problem before the government started telling us how to live our faith in the world and in our businesses:

    http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/p/how-does-gay-marriage-affect-you-anyway.html

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  62. This is my first time reading your blog. Coincidentally I approached the possibility of me voting for Trump to my family at dinner. My daughter said she knew it all along. She will vote 3rd party. My by the book conservative husband won't be voting for the first time in his life. They asked me for my top 3. I was so glad to read your post because it said much of what I have been tossing around in my head this week. Hey, someone does think like me. My #1 Life. It's time we catholics and Christians vote for a candidate th a table supports life. Without the dignity of life we have nothing else. #2. What I have against Trump (and there's a lot) comes down to his mouth, his words, his attitudes, his bigotry but those are just words. When I contrast to his opponent ... well ...no need to go there. She was never an option. #3 the people he is choosing to be part of his cabinet. His VP trounced the so-called catholic. If we could just go straight for Pence for president... but I digress. If who he is choosing says anything about the direction he intends, then I can live with that.
    Now to get convinced he isn't just trying to get Hilary elected and he really isn't a wolf in sheep's clothing. Hoping the next month shows a kinder, gentler, Trump. God bless.

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  63. 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it...' is a potent maxim in our current national election. Simply put, abortion is not the only life and death issue a Catholic voter faces. It is not the only moral or immoral issue a Catholic voter faces. It is not the only right or wrong issue or harm or no-harm issue. It simply cannot be the sole issue informing a conscience on who shall govern millions of people.

    The sermon you linked reflects what is wrong in the Church. A clergy using false comparisons to justify the conclusion he wants ... to lead people to what he asserts is an obvious conclusion by presenting ill-defined comparators as irrefutable premises that assure his conclusion-- is misgiuded. He was irresponsible to cloak his belief in false comparisons to present the supposedly reasoned conclusions. Ironic when he starts by pointing to the devil will mislead you. Such a lack of actual logical discipline harms the moral authority of the Church.

    If one agreed to bar abortions and yet promoted inhumanity, one is not promoting the teachings of Christ. Catholics tacitly signing off on various forms of inhumanity because a candidate says what they want to hear on the abortion issue is a wildly reckless, irresponsible approach to morality and neglects our duty to other issues that involve life, death, torture, starvation, and the promotion of evil throughout the world. In the modern world, like it or not, we are each a witness, each with a duty to those suffering souls whom we unexpectly encounter on our own road to Damascus.

    Mr. Trump, like those whom he openly admires, openly tends to self-serving, intolerant actions. That is the recipe for brutality, which is the hallmark of movements that harmed societies at will, whether by fascism or oppression by any means available.

    History does have lessons that matter. When a people have ignored extremist tendencies in rising leaders,they've empowered oppressors.

    Jesus accepted Pilate's role but recognized his ultimate accountability for his actions. We are not called to be Pilate by following an imposed duty, whether imposed by a job, a Church teaching, or a nation. We are each called to aid those on the road to Damascus. Acting to place another who despises all 'others' who may be on that road, agreeing he can control how those others shall be treated -- and a brutal approach is what DT consistently reveals -- is an rejection of the new testament, and a rejection of our individual duty to help and prevent harm to those suffering strangers who we will encounter in this life. It's a repudiation of the Beatitudes teachings.

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  64. Neil Grover, it appears that you gave us a sermon of your own. On this blog, we use a pseudo-socratic method, which helps in dialogue. You talk about one issue or point, and then ask a question or we ask you a question about it. But if you simply lecture us, and base that in essentially a hatred of Trump, you will make us all glaze over. Are you Catholic, by the way?

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  65. Y Kidder, welcome and you sound like a woman after my own heart. :)

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  66. I find hard to believe people are thinking of voting for Trump, after all the lies this man has said, and keeps saying, he has repeatedly committed adultery, has absolutely no moral compass,etc... do you actually think he will do anything he says?
    The only thing he is going to do to stop abortions, is start WWIII
    and there won't be anyone left to have an abortion. This man is the seven deadly sins, in a suit and a tie. To not vote for a women that fought her whole life for women and children, saved many children's lives, by obtaining health care for them. Her good intentions and actions, far outway anything negative that is said about her, where trump has not done anything, that does not directly benefit his own interest. I beg you all, Please do not put this man, that even the pope has a negative opinion of, in the white house, as you are voting for the fall of our nation, and probably the whole world.

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  67. Zigoapex, you really lost me right here:

    "To not vote for a women that fought her whole life for women and children, saved many children's lives, by obtaining health care for them."

    Hillary Clinton is a lover of death for the smallest children. She will not protect even one of them. Not a single one, not to the last moment before exiting the birth canal. She long ago made her pact with the devil, so to speak. And unlike Trump who has at least begun to move in the right direction (policy, people!), she hunkers down and expands her commitment to what Catholics know is pure evil. Even her former support of natural marriage went "poof", and now she is happy to take religious liberty away in favor of gay "rights" (she has stated so clearly, and check out the Democratic Platform). She is shameful.

    Again, policy, policy, policy.

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    1. I ask you this, do think it is right to force a woman to have a baby, that was raped? or having the baby, could actually cause her death, by having the baby? If think the government should have the right to force women to have babies, where will go from there? next will be selecting who can have a baby, and who can't, or force people to only be allowed to a certain amount of babies. This is violation of a woman's right to decide what to do with her body, and it's not government's job to dictate her actions. I think all avenues
      should point towards the woman having the baby, and then if not able to sustain the baby, give up for adoption. But it should be a woman's right to decide what course she will take, and if she decides to have an abortion, or someone is gay, it should up to god to decide what her faith shall be for her actions, not you , not me, not government, but god, who is the only one who shall judge people for their actions.
      It's people like you are why the catholic religion is failing, and loses people every day, as you forget your place, and commit sin yourself, by judging people,it's up to god.

      Delete
  68. Sorry, I am new here and didn't see the instructions until now. I will have to say that I am always shocked at the people who find it necessary to judge one candidate who has not been a public servant but a private businessman and is willing to put his life and the lives of his family in as much danger as he is in, and he is in danger, don't doubt that for a second, but at the same time does not see the DANGER in the other candidate who has been living off of us, the taxpayer, her entire life. Amazing. However, the five non negotiables of the Catholic Church are the foundation of our faith, and if we can't stand for them, we have no foundation whatsoever! Catholicism 101--the Five Non Negotiables- 1. Abortion 2. Marriage, between a man and a woman 3. Euthanasia, no one decides but God when you go Home 4. Stem Cell Research-obtained from aborted babies 5. Cloning-NEVER Don't ever let anyone tell you aborted baby stem cells provide anything as NO disease has ever been cured or stands to be cured by using them. I was in the pharma business for over 20 years, and that's the truth. Adult stem cells are ok and they do treat and heal and there is clinical research to prove both. There is only ONE candidate who supports the Catholic faith and has the most PRO LIFE PLATFORM EVER, EVER. Just think about that.

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  69. I am curious how the five non-negotiables came about. Certainly when the catechsims were written no one had heard about stem cells or cloning. Just wondering.

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  70. CiCi, thank you, and your first point is especially appreciated since it is not even talked about.

    Austin, no worries! You are not an idiot, and I am sorry if I freaked you out with my severe admonishment of Ron Conte, ha ha. He is so awful. He fools a lot of people and I wish there were a way to shut him down for misrepresenting himself as some kind of Catholic theologian and source.

    Anyway, I checked out your links and I have always understood, as is mentioned in the Catholic Answers forum, that there is no definitive answer, and that theologians have come down on both sides of that question. Personally, because I want to talk about and teach what is known, I have not concerned myself about this, the largely unknown. Since the very tiny risk of a baby being conceived and then being lost due to the hormones (unintended, unwillingly, and unknowingly) is not so evil as to be obviously condemned, then I will let it lie and let the theologians and the Church work it out.

    I hope that makes sense! I don't mean to make light of it, but it's not an issue that vexes me much and there is no directive for women in this particular situation. I appreciate your good will after I "attacked" ha ha. :)

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  71. Johanne, use of embryonic stem cells (not adult stem cells which are a-okay) involves the killing of the smallest human beings. So, it's a direct killing of humans, which is always intrinsically immoral. It's even more sinister that the individual human beings are being used as fodder for scientific experimentation before being discarded. Killing and/or experimenting on human beings without their permission is a grave violation of human rights and human dignity: No state has a right to violate those human rights. Any such law would be illegitimate on its face.

    As for cloning, same thing. Cloning involves a complete negation of the dignity of the human person, reducing him or her to experimentation.

    The moral truths and principles are always the same, and eternal, but we apply those principles to the situations that come up in every era. We didn't have cloning or ESCR capabilities back in the day, but it's easy to see how first principles are violated in those acts.

    I hope that helps.

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  72. MargoOctober 4, 2016 at 1:07 PM

    Margot: "I'm saying to decrease the number of women/girls who have unintended pregnancies, let us get to the root of the issue so as to stop this cycle of women/girls finding themselves in undesired pregnancies. Let's stop it before it happens. " How do recommend stopping it?

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  73. Brian and Liza if you willfully vote for Hillary Clinton you too will the have blood of Gods innocent children all over your hands!! You cannot be a Catholic or a Christian and be prochoice or knowingly vote for a radical abortion promoter like HRC!!! The Catholic Priest in the video makes that CRYSTAL CLEAR!! Hillary is in favor of partial birth abortion and abortion on demand all the way to the 9th month!!! Trump says he is Pro Life and picked Mike Pence who is a strong pro life Christian and very good man so even IF Trump is lying and is pro choice...IN THE EYES OF GOD HE WILL KNOW THAT WE AT LEAST TRIED AND DID THE RIGHT THING BY VOTING FOR THE PRO LIFE CANDIDATE!! Do the right thing, when it comes to abortion, Trump/Pence by far are the better choice!!! Our voices (votes) are the only thing that God's innocent children in the wombs have right now to defend them!!! "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves." Proverbs 31:8

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  74. I agree with most of your points, but as a Catholic, the main obstacle that I have to voting for Trump is his refusal to welcome Syrian refugees. I believe this issue comes in at a narrow second behind abortion (maybe even a tie), and I don't know how I can vote for Trump and one day look my savior in the eyes and say, "When you were a stranger, I welcomed you." The pain, horror, and loss of life happening in the middle east pains my daily, and I can't ignore it in this presidential election.

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  75. I am glad, with no sarcasm intended, that this is a no-brainer for you. I wish I felt the same. I feel myself very torn. I am very anti-HRC. But I also very anti-Trump. I don't for a minute believe either will be a good POTUS, nor do I believe either one is prolife. It isn't even discussed on Trump's campaign site. I want to believe that Trump would at least align himself with conservatives should he win and also nominate conservatives to any judicial branch opening that may arise in the next four years but since he basically does what he wants I don't know that he would. There is a great deal to think on and consider in the next month. I almost wish I lived in a state where I knew my vote wouldn't really make a difference, but unfortunately I do not. I will continue to pray for guidance.

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  76. Austin:

    I disagree that we should seek persecution under Hillary. The Church has issues today. But Faith and teachings are available for all who seek them. People enter the Church every year, fallen away Catholic rediscover their faith all the time. The Church is far from dead or lost.

    We should accept persecution if it comes our way. But we are not to seek it. We have a duty to preserve the faith for the future. We are not to throw away our lives or our children's future. God did not make us to be weak but to be strong in Him. We stand up to the Devil, we fight him. If we lose our lives in that fight then so be it but we do not seek death.

    We may get more martyrs and more canonized saints but how many other souls will be lost? How many will never have the opportunity to learn or be instructed in the faith because the Church is too busy hiding? How many potential saints will we lose?

    My family came from land where Catholics were hung in trees outside of their Church for daring to attend Mass. They came from a place where they were starved because they would not renounce their God.

    You want that for us? For our children? You willingly accept that? Or do you think it won't "be that bad"? Because the cruel who seek power over others always stop at a reasonable point?

    What makes you even think we'd fight? Most don't want to fight now when we have a chance of protecting ourselves and our freedom to openly practice our faith. You think people are suddenly going to find the will to fight when they are starving, fearing jail and death, and are social outcasts?

    Those Catholics, the ones who will fight, are the ones who want to fight now. For most people, your personality and moral character doesn't suddenly change in the face of temptation or peril. A few, a very very few, get those moments of full conversion. It is ridiculous to expect to be in that number, and it is awful to trash your friends' and family's chance at salvation because we are seeking a golden ticket to heaven.

    Our job is to attain Heaven and help the good Lord save as many souls as possible. A persecuted Church limits our reach, limits our message and limits the good we can do. It should NEVER be sought.

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  77. I invite you to read the following two articles :

    http://www.shannondingle.com/blog//im-pro-life-and-im-voting-for-hillary-heres-why

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57f5302ce4b032545262e136 I invite you to read these two articles:

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  78. Leila, I haven't read all the comments yet, but I wanted you to know that I completely agree with you regarding Trump and Clinton. And for those who are interested in a more secular analysis of what we are facing, this video from First Things is fascinating. She doesn't uphold Trump as a saint either, but she does go into why Clinton is likely more dangerous for our country overall. I know a lot of people think that Trump = doomsday because of his personality, but Helen Andrews argues that personality is not the most dangerous component in a candidate: https://www.firstthings.com/media/how-to-spot-a-dictator

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  79. Why shouldn't the LGBT community have rights. They are members of our society just like you and me. They are children of God just like you and me.

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  80. @ Allen

    The first lost me when she started talking about Hillary's stance on disabilities. She's making an error in believing as a parent of the disable she understands all the issues involved here. As a disabled woman who grew up as a disabled child I am terrified at the idea the disable will become the next group to be "saved" by the left.

    You have to understand how the left works. They are all about helping people, their way and only their way. They expect unending gratitude and obedience to them. Look at how they treat those who disagree with them.

    Women who do not fully buy into the feminize ideal. They are brainwashed, weak, idiots and those who will betray their own sex to find favor with men. They are shouted down and called names before they can even get our their argument.

    Look at the gays who either do not want to participate or flat out do not agree with much of the gay activists agenda. They are bullied, painted as full of self-hate and or considered objects of pity. Because reasonable minds differing? There is no such thing on the left.

    The disable are a very diverse group. We don't agree with each other on how things should be handled. And we walk on that thin ice very carefully. Most disabled are born into healthy families who do not always understand the dangers that are out there. That means it is very easy to take advantage of disabled children. I can't tell you how many times I had teachers threaten me with kicking me out of class or taking away other opportunities because I questioned them or asked them for help. I learned very fast if I wanted any education at all that meant I could not make waves. Sometimes that meant I had to lose points or not learn something because it was beyond my ability and no one would help. That's not right, it is not good and I don't want that for other kids. But I am very aware of the philosophical and political leanings of the adults who forced me into silence.

    That's the left, they will play the savior and help you so long as you act like their grateful little dog. Go against them, even in a very mild way, they will punish you and hurt you.

    When Shannon's kids grow up maybe they will explain to their mother the people who have the bad taste to make jokes about their disabilities are far less of a threat than those who seek to have power over those they see as weaker than themselves.

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  81. If every person who said "Don't vote for a third party candidate because they can't win" actually voted for that candidate, the third party candidate would win in a landslide.

    The trouble with this binary thinking approach (i.e., "I have to vote for one of the two major parties because only they have a chance") is that it ensures we will never fix our corrupt system and will in fact get worse and worse, and more polarized candidates.

    The other problem with the "vote Trump" because he's the lesser of two evils position, is that it assumes he's sincere and will actually do some of what he says he will

    I'll suggest to you that this is incurable naive. Donald Trump is a serial liar. He's flip flopped back and forth many, many times DURING this campaign, depending on the audience he's speaking to at the time.

    For just one example, he told the American people he was going to deport illegal aliens. Then he told the NY TIMES that he wouldn't. (He's even flipflopped again at least twice since then.)

    For another, he has been an ardent supporter of abortion all his life. (Remember that he's bragged about multiple affairs with all kinds of women - both married and unmarried. How many abortions do you think he's personally been responsible for?)

    But he suddenly reversed course on a lifetime of pro-partial birth abortion support right AFTER he decided to run for president (and switched his party registration from Democrat to Republican.)

    He's given no statement explaining this sudden change of heart. We're supposed to just accept it. He's even flipflopped on who he would nominate to the Supreme Court -- first giving a list of conservatives, then back tracking in that promise.

    The problem, as I see it, irks that far too many political novices are taking this conman at his word. He (now) says he's a Republican, so you believe it. He (now) says he's a pro-lifer, so you believe it.

    I would suggest to you that he's absolutely untrustworthy. He doesn't mean a word of it. He's just saying these things to distinguish himself from his close personal friend Hillary Clinton (who, by the way, Trump has praised over and over again, along with her husband Bill, and donated millions to -- right up until Trump announced his own candidacy.

    No, you're not a bad person if you vote for Trump. You're just a sucker.

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    1. Exactly. You cannot trust anything he says. He and HRC come from the same cesspool of New York politics.

      Delete
  82. You started off good. I liked the part where you wrote, "And if you believe Trump is a Hitler-figure, then we have nothing more to talk about."

    Sounds fair enough.

    But then she wrote, "the slobbering, slavish love of abortion that characterizes Hillary and her party."

    See the hypocrisy?

    So, at that point, I stopped reading, because I realized that ,"we have nothing more to talk about."

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  83. @Ben

    I'm not taking the conman at his word. What if you are right? What it Trump turns traitor to every promise and statement he ever made?

    We end up with Hillary-lite. Which is still better than Hillary. We also send a message to the right and the GOP that a candidate willing to take on Trump's positions will get support.

    Why wouldn't I vote for him? I'm no worse off than I would be if Hillary wins.

    You are right if every person who considered a third-party vote would vote third-party they might get enough states to stop Trump or Hillary from getting the numbers they need to be declared a winner. But Americans have shown, time after time, they will not support a third-party in enough numbers to matter.

    So why should I risk a third-party vote rather than vote to show the the type of candidate's platform I will support?

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  84. Liberal Catholic, you might not understand the difference between a fact about something and calumny. So, here goes: 1) Trump is not even close to being Hitler.
    2) The Democrats do have a slobbering, slavish love of abortion.

    Would you like proof of that? Can you tell me one abortion in the entire nation that Clinton and her Party would outlaw? No, you cannot.

    Did you know that Hillary's Party took out the word "rare" in the Platform when Obama was running? As in "abortion should be safe, legal, and rare"? The "rare" was voted out. Translation: They don't care if abortion is rare. It's not something they worry about. It's okay if it's not rare.

    Did you know that Cecile Richards, the head of Planned Parenthood, has revolving door access to the White House? You can google how many times she has been a White House guest under the Democrat in charge. One thing the Democrats and Hillary have never lied about is their support for abortion, both in word and in funding and in votes.

    Guess which national figure got the seat of honor next to former president Bill Clinton at the Democratic National Convention? Off all the dignitaries in this nation? Let's see. It was Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood. She also spoke and received a rousing reception. As did another women who gave a speech to Hillary's people at the DNC, proudly discussing her decision to have an abortion of convenience. She was cheered wildly by the delegates.

    That's just a tiny bit of the great mounds of evidence that is available. I stand by my statement. Usually folks like you duck and run when challenged. I hope you have an ounce of courage and will respond to me. I don't' expect it, but maybe you are not like a lot of the other hit-and-run cafeteria Catholics? I will respect you to the extent that you come back and face this like a man (woman)?

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  85. I'm unable to catch up with the previous comments, as I have to run out for a bit, but thank you for all the comments and I will get to them..... (StarFireKK, agreed about the Hillary-Lite comment!!)

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  86. StarFireKK, your comment about disabilities and the left, wow!!! Thank you for explaining that so clearly and profoundly. That last line, wow.

    Also, as there are a lot of new people here, I will mention that once this comment thread hits 200 comments, you will have to hit the "load more" link to see any future comments. It's kind of a pain. I suggest subscribing to the email comments which will bring all comments directly to your email inbox if you are interested in following this conversation.

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  87. I think the point of many of us is that in trying to "be relevant" and "not taking my voice out of the public sphere" in voting for a GOP or Dem, we're trading relevancy for expediency. How is it relevant to give up virtue for the sake of winning an election? For the sake of maybe a supreme court justice (remember half of GOP appoints have been pro-life disappointments anyway - and that's not from candidates who think that their extremely liberal judge sister would be fantastic)?

    I think every election has us thinking that we can't possibly choose otherwise because evil will result. And each election has us going down further into the hole because of the votes based on fear for the life-or-death of our country. I encourage you to read this article and remember that this isn't the last - and it isn't the worst. Christians always have cause for hope. http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/10/17977/


    Lastly, what matters far more is local and state elections.

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  88. Two points:
    1) George W Bush was pro-life, had a Republican-controlled Congress, and a conservative-leaning Supreme Court. Nothing happened. Your pro-life vote was courted, but not respected.
    2) Trump is a Republican, conservative, and Christian in name only, because it suits his pursuit of power. There is more proof (his own words and actions!) of this than there EVER was that President Obama is a Muslim. For *some* reason the same people who use conspiracy theories as proof against one man refuse to believe visible facts and statements against another.
    Do not be deceived - Trump is not a religious or moral savior. He won't be held in check or guided by his [for now] political party - he has hijacked it. The multiple and highly likely negative ramifications of his election (as identified by many conservative / Republican experts) far outweigh the slim possibility he would ever advance a pro-life agenda. Even if abortion is YOUR single most important issue, it only seems to be important to politicians when they want your vote.

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  89. Jonathan Taylor, it's strange because your comment seems completely disconnected from anything I wrote in my post. I never said Trump was a Christian savior. I never mentioned Obama as "Muslim", and I didn't make the post about abortion. So, I think you are just spouting talking points and not actually wanting to engage the points I made. When you want to do that, let me know.

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  90. threebecameone, my philosophy is that we work with reality and what we've got. The time for the purest candidates is in the primaries, when it's more likely that the base can be mobilized to get us there. In the general election, it's about mitigation of evil. My post lays out why I believe that Trump's policies are much less evil and destructive to my family and my Church than are Hillary's and the Democrats.

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  91. Ben, like many others here, I feel like you are just giving talking points, but not actually engaging the arguments I actually made in the OP. When I engage a position that I don't agree with, I usually quote the parts that I disagree with, and give reasons/evidence why they are wrong. All I hear from neverTrumpers is "he is not to be trusted!" Um, can you think of a politician that is trustworthy and does not lie? This is politics, folks. We are not in Utopia. The points in my original post make the case that it's not just about the person of Trump. Address the post.

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  92. OK my main agreement against your points is that there are other candidates but you seem to write them off as being equivalent to your relatives etc. They're actually running they campaign and people like yourself and unfortunately the Majority of Americans ignore them. They can be viable if only we actually voted in mass numbers. Also in regards to policy and the supreme Court. The framers actually set up something called separation of powers.... They also set up something most other developed countries still don't use if only for show and that is a bi-cameral Congress. Both bodies have to pass the same legislation. The senate also appoints supreme Court justices the president only nominates. The only thing I'll give you is the influence for lower federal courts. Also the changes you, I'm sure, you desire could be brought about through a convention of states article five of the Constitution. Look it up! It's awesome! It's never been used to amend the Constitution, but I think it's getting more attention as of late. Bottom line he's full of deception and falsehoods, but for some reason that's just acceptable to you when talking about politicians. Hence the mess we're in.

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  93. OK my main agreement against your points is that there are other candidates but you seem to write them off as being equivalent to your relatives etc. They're actually running they campaign and people like yourself and unfortunately the Majority of Americans ignore them. They can be viable if only we actually voted in mass numbers. Also in regards to policy and the supreme Court. The framers actually set up something called separation of powers.... They also set up something most other developed countries still don't use if only for show and that is a bi-cameral Congress. Both bodies have to pass the same legislation. The senate also appoints supreme Court justices the president only nominates. The only thing I'll give you is the influence for lower federal courts. Also the changes you, I'm sure, you desire could be brought about through a convention of states article five of the Constitution. Look it up! It's awesome! It's never been used to amend the Constitution, but I think it's getting more attention as of late. Bottom line he's full of deception and falsehoods, but for some reason that's just acceptable to you when talking about politicians. Hence the mess we're in.

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    1. Argument not agreement.... My bad I'm using my phone and I don't always catch the shenanigans. Also please excuse my grammar in general.

      Delete
  94. Incognito, where ever you are on this thread, those stats are derived through a shell game. When I get back home I will explain why they are completely misleading.

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  95. Thank God for this. I'm sick to death of seeing my newsfeed full of fellow Steubenville and Augustine Institute grads and FOCUS alums (read: faithful, practicing Catholics who are well formed) who are suddenly having like, an adulthood deficiency and just can't bear to sully their pencil tips and vote for Trump. I get it, the guy acts like an ass. But ... politics. My gosh, if for no other reason than the fact the media is practically melting down in an effort to thwart his chances, that ALONE tells me this one's really a no-brainer. If CNN hates him *that* much, surely this guy can't be all bad. Our Lady of the Rosary, pray for us! Pray for our nation!

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. OMG! they are not making anything up, they are only conveying
      what trump actually did, and says. How you can think this a news conspiracy, is absolutely absurd. Pease awaken from your slumber, and see this man for what he is, the devil in a suit and tie, who lives by the seven deadly sins.

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  96. JennyU, your comment is so good that I posted it as my Facebook status!

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  97. Austin, again, I'm not interested in "what ifs", I'm interested in *this* election. This November.

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    1. Leila:
      What, "what ifs" am I rambling about? Am I mentioning a different election that's happening during some other month than November? Doesn't worthwhile change start with the individual? I guess we all just need to be clapping seals and kiss the Donald's ring? This is getting frustrating with your constant dismissal of all dissent towards your reasoning. You don't tackle any of it. I don't understand why you never address mine and others points. I changed my comment to reflect specific points in the article you've laid out. I have yet to see you rebut; only admonishing me for promulgating what if scenarios?. I feel like you're not interested in honest discourse. To conclude I sense that this articles comments section has started the death spiral.

      Delete
    2. Austin, the "what if" we all had banded together to get these "other" candidates more votes:

      "They're actually running they campaign and people like yourself and unfortunately the Majority of Americans ignore them. They can be viable if only we actually voted in mass numbers."

      (The words you used were "if only.")

      Delete
    3. Leila

      Again only admonishing me for an if statement... no rebut of any of our discourse.....that "only if" one is more of a figure of speech too .... facepalm....

      Delete
    4. Austin, you seem like a nice guy, but there are a couple of points I need to make (at 12:34am; I need to get to bed!)...

      1. You are new here and don't yet know the way we do things. First, please follow the rules and post at the bottom of the comments, cutting and pasting if you need to reply to something specific. I cannot find the comments in the thread otherwise, and many get ignored.

      2. If you only knew how crazy it's been. This post has been the most widely read and shared of any post I've written in over six years of blogging. I also have simultaneous debates going on Facebook, not to mention the fact that my son and daughter-in-law are in town and I'm spending time with them.

      3. You have written a lot of words here from what I can tell. I am trying to read and answer as many folks as I can (plus the private emails). If you want a specific question answered (that is somehow related to my points in the OP), then please let's take it one at a time. Go ahead and post a question at the bottom. Again, make it relevant to the points I made, and if you can limit it to one at a time, I can have a clear mind to answer it directly. As it is, you have just put out too many words.

      Thanks!

      Delete
  98. Religious "leaders" will always try to push their own religious agenda onto their parishioners because it perpetuates the ability of the church to control and dictate in order to preserve their own earthly interests (housing, salaries, etc.) This priest is incorrect when he states that the the laws are going to change because we have a liberal president vs. Trump (who knows what he espouses). And, that our taxes subsidize abortions. Whatever happened to the freedom of religion that the conservatives are always railing about? As long as it fits their beliefs they're okay with everyone else having religious rights. Trump and some conservative evangelicals want to ban Muslim refugees; and, just like Hitler persecuted Jews, what will happen when they decide to go against Catholics. What this priest is stating is misleading and untrue.
    For over 25 years we contributed monthly to a building fund for a church in our neighborhood. It wasn't until later that we discovered that funds from our diocese, including our building funds, had gone to cover all the lawsuits against several priests, including our own pastor. These lawsuits were brought forth by the families of several children who had been sexually molested by these false shepherds. I no longer trust or believe any agenda being pushed by any church.
    I would not endanger my life, livelihood and safety and that of my loved ones by taking a chance on the most unqualified candidate EVER! The idea that somehow my Catholic beliefs will be usurped by voting for Hillary is totally disingenuous and dangerous .

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  99. I grew up in the Catholic Church and I will always think of it fondly as my first Christian home. There is so much about this article that breaks my heart, from the demonization of Democrats to support of the egregious abuse of power by denominations and church officials to persuade voters to vote one way or the other. But most of this is strictly opinion, and you are entitled to yours as well as I am to mine. I spent four years preparing to be a nun and 35 years in the Catholic Church, and yet I never voted a certain way because of it. I vote the way I do because I am a Christian, and because I grew up in a dual-denomination household (thank God!), I am able to understand the separation between the two. My Christianity is about my relationship to God; Catholicism was how I practiced that. While I tend to support Democratic policies, I have more often voted for a Republican president, so I don't consider myself particularly biased toward one side or the other. We are all Christians, regardless of how we vote. If we understood that Christians everywhere will be praying with regard to this election, asking for guidance from God, and some will follow that by voting for Hillary, and some will follow that by voting for Trump, we'd all be a lot better off. No one is less or more of a Christian because of who they vote for president. At the moment, I feel that I can best serve as a Christian by voting for Democratic policies, though I do not know who I will vote for come election day. I do know that I cannot in good Christian conscience ever vote for Trump, and it has nothing at all to do with his politics. He is a loose cannon and he respects human life very little at all. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans with regard to human life is who they place as more important. Republicans champion the lives of those inside the womb, but do very little for many groups of people outside it. Democrats are fierce protectors of people outside the womb, but don't do enough to respect the life of the unborn. Both parties are equally flawed. Both equally respect and disrespect life on a daily basis. Christians can vote Democrat or they can vote Republican, and still be Christians.

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    1. I am not trying to attack you "unknown", but your mentality of the government having a duty to care for the needy is simply un-American, nearly Marxist, and most importantly a perverted view of how to be a good practicing Christian. The individual has a duty to care for those less fortunate, the poor, etc. To think there can be a utopian state that meets all the needs of the people, with fallen people in charge of it, is a farce. Voting for policy to increase taxes and or increase theft from those who labor or have wealth is redistribution of wealth and its naïve to assume the government is responsible to provide any form of welfare. We the Church have this duty....unless you're secular or maybe an atheist, or laughably an Islamist following sharia which calls for a govt to do such things..lol. On a side note, are you still Catholic? I have no idea because of how you've formed this post, it seems like your Catholicism is in past tense...just curious. I don't think you're being honest with yourself in saying the democrats care for those outside the womb because they push for euthanasia old and young in the name of compassion and their perverted interpretation of quality of life and so they wish to end the lives of those they deem unfit or not of a quality they accept as tolerable... They also pursue child abuse in the form of "LGBTQ" adoptive rights and denying a child either a mother or father which they have a right to. The Dems also advocate for again "LGBTQ" self mutilation by we the taxpayers dollars, just recently now our soldiers are able to get this done on our dollar. etc etc etc...the list goes on. Also at least the people outside the womb likely have a voice and are seen. Vote third party there are decent options. To advocate for liberal social policy for the govt to care for people in dire straights isn't evil its just in my opinion a way of forcing and or imposing on others who may not wish to be charitable in the same ways as you are. Our Govt's duty as laid out in the constitution is simply this, "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." here is the definition of welfare around the time when the framers wrote the constitution, cause I know you'll see that and assume its a free for all with social justice spending etc.

      http://www.webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Welfare

      To wrap this up its silly to think voting democrat is an option seeing that they are complacent, advocate and or perpetuate so many evils. I don't think you'll wind up in hell for it or not be considered a Christian, but I seriously question your judgment if this party as it stands is an acceptable option for you considering your Christian values.

      Delete
  100. Incognito, what happened to religious freedom, you say? What about when they come for Catholics? Well, the left, the "progressives", the Democrats, already have:

    https://stream.org/197368-2/

    And Hillary and her party promise more of the same, even a doubling down.

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    1. Well, here is your savior, the best man for the job,
      truly he adores women. I beg you to listen to the man YOU PLAN ON VOTING FOR,I HOPE YOU SLEEP WELL WITH YOUR DECISION!!
      https://youtu.be/oNiad5mPZPc

      Delete
  101. Unknown, unfortunately, you have repeated one of the biggest lies against pro-life conservatives (many of whom are Republicans): The lie that they "don't care much" for people outside the womb.

    I wrote about that and debunked that insidious myth (as many others have as well):

    http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2011/03/pro-lifers-love-fetus-but-they-dont.html

    Will you retract? Or when you mean "care", do you only mean "massive federal government programs"?

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  102. Incognito, let's talk about that misleading "3%" statistic, that even WaPo gave "three pinnochios":

    "By Planned Parenthood’s math, a woman who gets an abortion but also a pregnancy test, an STD test, and some contraceptives has received four services, and only 25 percent of them are abortion. This is a little like performing an abortion and giving a woman an aspirin, and saying only half of what you do is abortion."

    Not to mention the percentage of PROFIT that comes from abortion itself. Much, much more than 3%.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421981/3-percent-dodge-rich-lowry

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  103. At least abortions will be illegal while we are enjoyong WWIII. Vote Trump

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  104. Of course its nothing to do with me, I am from the rest of the world but Ia m interested.
    Under which presidential candidate are the poor in spirit, and the those in poverty most likely to be blessed?
    Under whose presidency are those who mourn most likely comforted?
    Which candidate is most likely to ensure that the gentle will inherit the earth?
    Which candidate best understands the meaning of mercy and knows how to show it?
    Which candidate is most likely to lead the US to make peace with its enemies and learn how to love them.
    Which candidate is most likely to persecute who pursue righteousness?

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  105. In all honesty , my wife's grandmother (having lived in and survived Nazi Germany) still TO THIS DAY believes Hitler was not a bad guy. This, of course, is because of intense propaganda, and she was given land and food , being of the correct ethnic origin.

    So, I would counsel to pray for wisdom and understanding in choosing a candidate that OUTRIGHT LIES to the American people over and over again...

    Trump is possibly worse than Hitler... You have not given him and chance , or are you?

    Finally , I agree with with Sainttobe... We should NOT SETTLE... Nothing in the political system or elsewhee) will change by settling...

    And I will say I disagree with the writer's apathy... Nothing great has been achieved from settling for what we were given... "Well, I guess we will put up with this King of Great Britain too... What choice do we have ..." NO! God bless those brave enough (and I am , obviously , only brave enough to stand on my soapbox through FB --- where only you ( or are you gone ?) pay attention to me...)... God bless those who were brave enough to keep create this country ... Lord God, please bless the USA!

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  106. Side note: I do not expect perfection , everyone is less than adequate .... Side note: favorite bumper sticker "We are all dysfunctional. Get over it." Character of a president is extremely important (not the Bugs Bunny kind)! Candidates that have been caught in several lies to the American people is disgraceful and disrespectful...

    Worse of all, is that, Mr. Trump will not attempt his lies... Let alone his other character faults... This is deeply disturbing... [reminds me of the president in Michael O'Brien's Father Elijah--- only Mr. Trump even appears worse...]

    Finally, checking boxes is participating, even if you say other choices are not viable , obviously our INDIRECT democracy has become skewed to only allow for two parties a chance , and don't get me started on the electoral college, how well our congressmen (and women) represent us ... Voting NONE OF THE ABOVE may not make a difference to you or them , but I will not vote for someone because the other is worse, especially since the other one is so bad as well...

    NONE OF THE ABOVE for POTUS in 2016!

    Fun FB thread here to join: https://www.facebook.com/awgrosvenor/posts/10210389552725012
    And comic relief here:o) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCFzYcLVNk0#

    NONE OF THE ABOVE!

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    1. So none of you "good Catholics care that Mr. Trump has all the racists groups in America supporting him vigorously. You care about your own self interests, not the interests of others....ie Black people, Mexicans, Muslims, women, and so own.....so as long he does not effect you personally he is the man for you....so sad...but this is the state of our country today....I will pray you all....I am Black Catholic by the way....

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    2. Hello Earl, I, Snowshoehare, am NOT VOTING FOR MR. TRUMP! I pray for us too. And, Earl, I would be interested in your Faith journey as a self-prclaimed Black Catholic... Where are you from? Were you raised Catholic? I am White/Caucasian male of European decent. Families have been in USA for several hundred years, coming to the "New World" as immigrants for freedom of religion and opportunities to work and raise a family. The Church was center of the community and a moral compass. I was not always as firm in my Faith. But God is good. Jesus saves. His Spirit is in our hearts!

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  107. At least abortions will be illegal while we are enjoyong WWIII. Vote Trump

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  108. Marcus Small, I am pretty sure my post and Father's homily addressed that.

    Daniel, way to engage none of my comments.

    Earl, welcome! I know many black Catholics, and they don't all agree with you, as I'm sure you know.

    I hate to ask you what you think about Ben Carson, who is a wonderful man, by the way.

    I am amazed at how many commenters will not engage my actual words and arguments.

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    1. I engaged your one topic, abortion. Last I checked we were voting for the President of the United States not on abortion. The consequences of electing Trump go way beyond the issue of abortion. As far as his pro life stance given his personal record with women, if you're gonna buy that I have a bridge to sell you. If you want me to tell you what you want to hear I can do that too. Just like Trump. Congratulations on your lack of guilt supporting the biggest embarrassment to American politics in history.

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  109. What you and the video appear to offer is critique of the policy of one candidate and on one issue.
    My questions were about a set of issues, taken straight from the Gospel's which so far as I can see are not addressed by the blog.
    Perhaps I missed it.

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  110. Marcus, there is a hierarchy of moral truths, and the direct targeting of innocent human life, and the protection of marriage, etc., are on top of that hierarchy. As the Church says, being right on the other issues doesn't make up for being wrong on those.

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  111. Trump has addressed the concerns of Catholics. I find this most welcome. He is moving steadily in the right direction:


    http://m.ncregister.com/51161/d#.V_fviDKZPCZ

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  112. Leila, I have been very careful not mention particular candidates, that not my concern, I don't have your responsibility here.
    So is ok to be wrong about things at the bottom of the hierarchy if one is right about things at the top?


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  113. Marcus, no, it's not okay. Leila isn't arguing that it's okay. A lot of people want her to prove that Trump is some sort of saint or that he has it "right" on all aspects of morality. But she isn't claiming that, nor are Catholics obligated to wait for that magical candidate. While Romney and Trump are worlds apart, I saw the same problem over and over again when Romney ran. He wasn't "holy" enough for the devout Catholics and many Christians who couldn't bring themselves to vote for a Mormon. Romney wasn't perfect enough because his policies didn't match up perfectly with the Church. So we got something far worse -- Obama. But thank goodness those holy folks didn't get their hands dirty in the voting process!

    We are not required to wait for such perfection when participating in public life as Catholics, and I know many holy priests who are well versed in theology, urging people to vote for Trump precisely for the reasons Leila is giving here. They don't love Trump, but they see the bigger picture and, yes, the "top of the hierarchy" concerns. If our souls were in danger over a Trump vote, I have no doubt they would guide us away from voting for him. They don't sell their souls for politics or just to win on issues. Catholics have a right to discern for themselves, but it's unfortunate that they won't let these holy, devout priests guide them and ease their fears a little over the conscience issue.

    Anyway, this is the problem I see with this conversation. Leila is arguing that there is a less evil choice here, one that has a fighting chance of helping the unborn, of nominating decent justices, of protecting religious liberty.

    When reading von Hildebrand regarding the rise of communism and fascism in WWII, he was astonished that people could not see that both were the same side of the same coin, that voting for one out of fear of the other was not helpful. If these two candidates and parties were two sides of the same coin, then I could get behind abstaining or voting third party. But they aren't. Read the party platforms. They are very, very different parties. Both parties are flawed, but the Democrats and Clinton are flawed in a much graver way than the Republican party and Trump who has given us hope in his advisors, justice lists, statements to Catholics, etc. That is the whole point of this. We aren't naïve. We don't fully trust every Republican or Trump, but we have much reason to hope and parties that do differentiate morally.

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  114. I would always be rather wary of anyone telling me something I wanted to hear especially if that person wanted some thing from me. I would still have an eye to their words and actions in the past.
    Still, thankfully its not my responsibility. I am not an elector in the world's most powerful nation. We may yet suffer the consequences of the vote in November ( I make no judgement here about which way it goes) but I won't be responsible for any consequences.

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  115. [First, disclaimer, if you are wondering, I WILL NOT VOTE FOR CLINTON... absolutely, not...]

    Bishop Conley has great insight here: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/bishop-conley-you-actually-dont-have-to-vote-for-either-72222/

    Lincoln, Neb., Sep 30, 2016 / 03:33 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Catholics who can't in good conscience vote for either major presidential candidate are well within their rights to pick a third option, says Bishop James Conley of Lincoln, Nebraska.

    Voters need to discern whether there is a candidate in each race who can “advance human dignity, the right to life and the common good,” he said in his Sept. 30 column for the Southern Nebraska Register.

    “When there is, we should feel free to vote for that candidate – whether they are a member of a major party or not,” he said. “No Catholic should feel obliged to vote for one candidate just to prevent the election of another.”

    BETTER YET! Here is a write-in for you:
    http://thehill.com/opinion/brent-budowsky/284531-budowsky-pope-francis-for-president

    By Brent Budowsky - 06/22/16 06:12 PM EDT
    Perhaps Donald Trump, when he is not dishonestly questioning Hillary Clinton’s faith, should consider the proverb about people who live in glass houses.

    Perhaps Hillary Clinton, when she is not sounding like Marcia Clark prosecuting O.J. Simpson as she attacks Donald Trump, might reflect on why Pope Francis towers above other public figures in public esteem and why Bernie Sanders dominated Trump by enormous margins in public opinion polls throughout the presidential campaign.

    I still think NONE OF THE ABOVE, [being from Michigan, I do not think it is too risky either]... and conscience intact...

    Mr. Trump is a con-artist and not a good businessman, and he lacks many basic virtues for being a good person let alone POTUS. So, NONE OF THE ABOVE...

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  116. I don't understand why the legality of abortion is the most important policy to guide our political decisions. Let's say abortion is illegal AND no one ever has an abortion ever again. Now what? Sorry to be so cynical, but all that I can foresee changing is we live in a more overpopulated world that is still screwed up with war, hunger, illness, homelessness, violence (dare I say gun violence?), natural disasters (that may or may not come from human-driven climate change), and more.

    I am not saying that this is reason to support or even passively be okay with abortion, but I find other policies more important than pro life or pro choice. I need a leader who cares about the living poor and oppressed, who loves people of all faiths, ethnicities, countries of origin, socioeconomic statuses, genders, and sexualities. I look at Trump and I see too much fear and too much hate. I'm so disappointed by our choices this election, but Trump is still an easy no for me.

    On another note, Leila, I often read your posts because they are almost always something I disagree with. I enjoy hearing other points of view, especially ones that are well-articulated. I do my best to be open-minded and to consider the alternative to what I believe. All of that said, this is the first time that I have finished reading what you and other Catholics have to say and no longer want to identify as a Catholic person. I've long had my questions and doubts and struggles with the church, but I currently feel alienated by and ashamed of what other Catholics believe. I have some homework to do regarding the true foundation and pillars of the faith. I always held strong that it was--above all--love for all people, but it doesn't feel that way today.

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  117. Well, great, Marcus, you won't be responsible for any consequences. The rest of us actually have a decision to make. And your words may have consequences, and you will be responsible for those. The washing hands attitude among those who can vote and the smug pride of those who cannot vote for "not being responsible for any consequences" isn't helpful to anyone. It's this attitude of self preservation that is problematic. It leaves everyone else to wrestle with the voting decision and also to wrestle with the fallout when someone finally wins, while the self preservationists pat themselves on the back and/or blame everyone else for the state of the world.

    We are all in this together -- whatever we do or don't do does matter. And if you cannot vote in this election but feel the need to offer opinions, make sure those opinions are in line with what is actually best for everyone. Be sensitive to the fact that other people do face a big decision.

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  118. Elizabeth I cannot vote in November, nor do I desire to. I do not live in the US and am not a US citizen. So I am not washing my hands, in this respect I have no hands to wash.
    Yes we are all in this world together, I hope that people voting in the most powerful nation on earth don't forget that fact.
    Your vote could have consequences for people across the world. Its a great responsibility which I do not envy.

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  119. This is the man you are going to vote for??? and consider yourself christians??? Shame on you!!! I've been around, I never heard anyone demean a woman like he does in this video. admitting he was trying to have sex with a married woman.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNiad5mPZPc

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  120. Bethany, I just gave a talk today about how love may never be divorced from truth. If you want to leave what is true out of a false (disconnected) sense of "love", then you never wanted the truth to begin with. I am sorry to see you go, and I hope you come back to the only entity on earth which dispenses both the truth and love, because founded and animated by the One Who is both. If you leave truth for "love", you don't actually have authentic love at all, but what the Church calls "mere sentimentality". It will not satisfy for long, and especially not into eternity. Blessings to you.

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    1. HERE IS THE MAN YOU ARE VOTING FOR!!! AND YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING??? THIS TRUMP AUDIO CAME OUT TODAY!!!

      https://youtu.be/oNiad5mPZPc

      Delete
  121. Can any Clinton supporter list one thing she has done while SoS or Senator that was effective, prudent, necessary, unselfish, and/or pro-American?

    Didn't think so.

    Now, can any Clinton supporter explain what is so stellar about these things – all done on taxpayer dime and time, mind you: the on-going scandal of her private email server, the tragedy of the Benghazi horror and the American lives lost on her watch, Iraq, Libya, her destabilizing of the middle east, her 33,000 deleted emails (after the info was subpoenaed), her failed Iran deals, her gift of the uranium deal to Russia, her attack on women, her attack on minorities, her many failures on trade and jobs and the economy, her failure to help minorities and her condescending to use them for a vote, of her Haiti rip-off (money from the poor!!), of her Clinton Foundation (where only 6% goes to charitable cause), her outright use and deception of Bernie Sanders and the job she pulled over on him during the DNC, and her love of killing the unborn at any time during the pregnancy and for any reason? This was ALL on tax payer dime and time. THIS is what you should be looking at and holding up in stark stark contrast to the Republican platform and what Trump’s plans are.

    My God, I feel like is remedial. I am alarmed, floored, stunned at the fact that we have low-information voters in the era of 24/7 news available. There is no reason to WONDER at what she’s done—just google it, for God’s sake.

    Trump has NO public service record because… he was a private citizen. The fact that people cannot or will not see that basic difference—based on the shallow thinking in the comments here-- is breath taking.

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  122. zigoapex, with due respect, you appear to have come unhinged. Please stop spamming and using all caps (yelling). I am shocked that you are shocked that Trump spoke of women that way. Didn't we already know this? This is news? Um, not to me. This is the unfortunate state of manhood in America. Are you just as appalled by that kind of thing when it comes from Bill Clinton (rapist, disgusting user of women, objectifier of women) or the Kennedys (you think they didn't/don't speak that way?). My husband plays basketball with young men at his gym every morning. They are mostly Obama supporters. This is how they speak, too. My husband and his Catholic friends are an anomaly, as they don't do that kind of talk. Out in the secular world? That's how millions of men speak when they are amongst themselves. Is it sick? Yes. It's immoral. But you are shocked? Really? You didn't know this about Trump? And from 11 years ago?

    Honestly, people who are getting the vapors about this.... do you get the vapors when Clinton's rape victims speak out about an even worse degradation committed by Bill and defended by Hillary? No vapors.... huh, go figure.

    For the record, I'm against ALL of it. It's immoral and unvirtuous.

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  123. Leila, I hope you're doing well, and I don't want to get into a long argument. But this is just wrong:

    "This is the unfortunate state of manhood in America."

    I've spent plenty of time in locker rooms, and I'm around young men every day. Most men don't talk like that.

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  124. Well, I've spent plenty of time in a women's locker room and even they talk like that about guys and even other women. Not a shocker. Sometimes the stuff the women say make the men look positively genteel in comparison. Not saying it's right, just saying it's a reality.

    And Leila's not wrong on the guys. Your average adult male in this culture isn't exactly rarefied in taste-- a good number of them are rather vulgar by nature when it comes to off the cuff remarks about women-- especially in the locker room or in casual settings. Not saying it's right, just saying it's common.

    But herein lies the massive hypocrisy of it all: Trump said gross things. Bill Clinton did gross things AND his approval rating went up! So voting for Clinton gets Bill back in the white house. Think about it.

    I think what she said in the doc dumps tonight was way more telling and damning than what Trump said as a private citizen, but you won't hear it spun that way in the media. They're going to play this trash sound bite all the way up to the debate and beyond.

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