Wednesday, July 29, 2015

Abby Johnson showed up to testify before the Texas Senate; Planned Parenthood refused


For reference:




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Our friend Abby Johnson, former Planned Parenthood clinic director, testified today in front of the Texas Senate Committee on Health and Human Services regarding the Planned Parenthood baby organ harvesting scandal.





All I can say is, this woman is fearless. Absolutely fearless, and committed to telling the truth, no matter where the chips may fall. She is my kind of woman.

Okay, this is a long hearing. It's over four hours long. I watched it all. If you can't take that kind of time, be sure to see Abby's part.

She enters at about 2 hours, 22 minutes into the video. Her specific statement to the committee begins at about 2 hours, 30 minutes. And at about the 3 hour, 22 minute mark, there are some tense moments as Planned Parenthood's attorney interrupts proceedings to come forward and enter Planned Parenthood's written testimony into the record. The chairman asked PP's attorney if she would be willing to testify; the attorney declined. The chairman had, at the beginning of the hearing, already made clear his disappointment at Planned Parenthood's refusal to participate in these important proceedings.



On July 17, I first posted on the Planned Parenthood/baby organ harvesting story, and I have watched all the unedited videos (edited and unedited) to date. I invited our pro-"choice" readers to discuss this issue, and so far not a single one has come forward. The silence is deafening, and that's never really happened here before.

Abortion supporters, where are you? We are respectful here, as you know, so please tell us what you think. And it's okay (and even freeing) if you want to admit that Planned Parenthood is doing something that is, in fact, indefensible.

Be courageous, like Abby Johnson. Let's talk about the truth of it.


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PS: WOW! Take one minute and eight seconds to watch this brilliant video explaining how PP double-dips its profits:








35 comments:

  1. I've been confused about the uproar on this one. If you believe life begins at conception, then the horror is the abortion, which we knew was going on all the time. What they do with the baby's organs is secondary. And if you don't believe life begins at conception and that a fetus is "just a clump of cells," then they are describing, in somewhat graphic terms, what is essentially a surgical procedure. I guess people who are on the fence may be motivated to carefully analyze what they believe based on the graphic descriptions -- so there's that. Certainly I can see this being a powerful way to demonstrate what a second-trimester abortion entails. But other than that? I just don't see why people who are not already upset by abortion are so outraged over this particular video.

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  2. Tia, yes. But I think that it's done something to snap people into consciousness. Sometimes, they need to be confronted with something "shocking". Yes, it's all horrible. Yes. But some people can gloss it over in their minds until they see something just a bit "shocking".

    By the way, look in the original post for an update: Video number 4 has been released.

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  3. I want to see the defense of the 900% increase (minimally) in cost per specimen, from harvester to customer.

    I want to hear the PP defense for that. In some instances there was greater than a 3900% increase, per Abby's own experience. Yet there’s no “revenue” for PP? No media coverage of this?

    And the push that PP is “not for profit” and a hero of “women’s health”??
    Their PR image control is backfiring. Have you seen their tweets, the deleted ones that got so much blowback on social media? And their shove on reporters, telling them to stop with coverage?

    It’s like an ogre screaming at people saying, “No, look! I am so very pretty! So very beautiful, minus the pussing sores, facial warts, drooping eyes, yellow teeth, and limp hair! I am not a monster! I am, in fact, gorgeous, despite my actual reflection in the mirror. Keep believing that.”

    All 4 witnesses did a great job.

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  4. In a way I feel bad for Dr. Nucatola. Basically, she decided to perform abortions after watching a patient bleed out from an unsafe second-trimester abortion. She was traumatized and thought about how she does D&Cs on miscarriage patients safely all the time, and it so traumatized her that decided to work with Planned Parenthood. So at least from the outside it seemed that love and concern for her adult patients was initially motivating her. But when you see her talking in the videos it seems so so sad; you wish she could look at herself with clearer vision and ask herself, "is this really the good I was hoping to achieve?"

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  5. Nubby, yes!! That's exactly right. And, the profit margin...oh my gosh. And did you see the latest video today? "It's a boy!" Lord have mercy.

    Tia, I don't disagree. It is tragic. I am hoping that for her, personally, this is a huge "come to Jesus" moment, as they say.

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  6. I'm watching right now. Oh, indeed, let us call it "research" and not a "business venture", for more "wiggle room" under the law. Let us make sure that we all coordinate our transactions to better cover our tracks. Oh, it is big business, isn't it? How sick.

    Lord, we are destroyed for love of money. Lord, have mercy, save us from our own devices. St. Raphael, you are the true medicine of God, as your namesake reveals. Anoint us with God's saving grace, down deep in our souls, turn us to the love of God and to His everlasting Mercy. Amen.

    Many, many, many rosaries...

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  7. I can't even finish watching the senate meeting. It is so sad :( I need to go into my hermitage and pray. Pray that God would have mercy on us and on the whole world.

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  8. CS? Miss G? Alan? Anyone???

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  9. How about on Facebook? I came across one person who supported PP, saying that the videos were misleading and, of course, heavily edited. I called him out on that. I also gave the link to Abby's testimony - so powerful.

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  10. I have heard from two more or less pro-"choice" people on Facebook. Their comments were very subdued. I'm just stunned that no one has come here to even attempt to address these issues.

    And did you see that Planned Parenthood actually faked that supposed "hack" of their own website? They staged that in order to blame pro-lifers! They have absolutely no shame.

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  11. Here is the evidence:

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/blog/did-you-catch-the-planned-parenthood-website-hack/

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  12. Both Abby Johnson and Carol Everett (seen testifying in this hearing) had abortions, both ran abortion clinics, both left because someone was praying for them to have a change of heart. It is only the grace of God that can change hearts and minds on this issue. Thank God that these two women responded to that grace.

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  13. The unedited video states that Planned Parenthood only charges for the fetal tissue donation to break even, that point is constantly reiterated. Breaking Even not making a profit. These people who choose to donate fetal tissue, the abortion providers seek and get informed consent for every aspect of the procedure. Planned Parenthood also follows all the legal ethical rules that the federal governments set out for tissue donation. These people are actually able to think and make the right decision for them, it is not a decision you have to agree with but it is a legal decision and they are allowed to make for themselves.
    Only 3% of what Planned Parenthood does is Abortion, the other 97% is women's healthcare.
    There is an amazing documentary called After Tiller there are two quotes in the documentary that relate to this situation.
    Dr Robinson said "Because what I believe is that women are able to struggle with complex ethical issues and arrive at the right decision for themselves and their families. They are the world’s expert on their own lives."
    Dr Sella said "I always come back to the woman and what she's going through and often what life will this baby have? What will it mean to be alive with horrible fetal abnormalities? It's not just about being alive. It's about life and what that means."
    As the daughter of a special needs teacher who was also the only foster carer and respite care in our whole city for children with special needs. By age 8 I was a walking encyclopaedia of special needs diagnoses.
    I remember T a child with ASD asking my father if he moved to a different country would he still have ASD the sorrow he felt when he realised he was always going to be like that there was no escape.
    S who would get into violent rages until my father realised that what he wanted a cuddle so for hours at time an almost fully grown man would be curled up sucking his thumb listening to books designed for toddlers with my dad.
    There were so many children who came and lived with us some for long periods of time who have no life. 2 of the boys who were brothers were not wanted by there by families we had them for years they were hilarious and loved to play reggage music way to loud and spent a lot of time trying to convince my parents that fruit and veggies are not edible, when they aged out and lived full time with there parents they became drug addicts, it just about broke my mum's heart when she saw H realised what his family had done to him.
    Other children who came to school smelly and hungry and my father would buy them clothes and food out his own money. Because there families didn't care about them because of there diagnoses.
    I have lost count of how many children lived with us, I still remember their names, faces and quirks and diagnoses. I remember their struggles.
    It would have been better if these people hadn't been born, and it's not because I ever saw them as a burden to our lives but because they weren't, they aren't living they were/are simply existing.
    I realise that is harsh, but I still deal with it on a daily basis I am a Kindergarten Teacher I have worked with parents who are struggling with their children, being a shoulder to cry on accession I have called in my now retired Father to sit with them talk with them for hours, help them understand reassure them that it is ok to grieve for the child they thought they were going to have, come to terms with the child they have, to take extra pictures of there child to show the progress they are making even if it minor, help create a support network for them. Not to mention advocate for that in regards to government services, the wider school community and other parents who want the child out of the class.
    Forcing any women to go through with a pregnancy that she does not want to is barbaric.
    Although I am an American we mainly lived in a different country which was tiny hence how my father/our family were the only one who were able to take special needs children without a home.

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  14. Oh and I should mention some of the children who lived with us there parents wanted them and we were simply giving them a break. If a family makes the choice to continue the pregnancy knowing that they are going to have a special child, then they should get all support and help they need and I take my hat off to them for making that choice.
    And I come in peace :D

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  15. Copezio, thank you for coming forward as I'm sure it is not easy to say the things you have said on this particular blog. First, I have to say that the first part of what you said is not exactly correct if you have watched the three subsequent undercover videos (with more to come, each more horrific than the last). Profit is absolutely a motive here. And if you watch Abby Johnson's testimony you will see that they were making upwards of $120,000 per month on the sale of body parts. So much evidence shows that they were not simply being reimbursed for the shipping and handling costs.

    But I guess what disturbs me, and you are right that it is "harsh", is that you are basically saying that these human beings you experienced we're not really "living" a life. But no human being has the right to determine for another human being whether or not the second human being is "living". Especially when the human being in question has no voice and no defense. That is called oppression. When the strong kill the weak, we call that oppression. You are going by the principle that "the end justifies the means" and the end, in your mind, is the avoidance of suffering. Am I correct? You want people to avoid suffering. But when people suffer, we love them, we do not kill them. And since all of us will suffer terribly in one way or another in our lives, and we will all eventually die which is its own suffering, then why don't we kill everyone before birth? We all have the potential to suffer badly.

    And when you say that people with disabilities or mental problems have no right to be born if their mothers don't want them, what does that say to the disabled children and people who do live on this earth?

    And the idea that most abortions are performed for serious physical or other "defects"… that is completely untrue.

    Just about every part of your premise is troubling. Have you watched all four of the videos, and Abby's testimony about how they joked by calling the freezer where they kept the body parts "the nursery"? Did you read about the profits made? Did you see the medical assistants gleefully announcing "it's another boy!" as they picked through the dismembered remains of a child that had been living just moments before they ripped him apart? Who has that right to take that life?

    Yes, I do believe that what you have said is "harsh". It is the idea that murder is a problem-solver. How do you get around that fact?

    Forgive any typos as I'm trying to do this on my phone.

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    1. Abby Johnson addresses that 3% statement from PP about abortion, that only 3% of their business is abortion. I believe she writes about this in her book. The percentage of business simply reflects the number of appointments someone has at PP. So girls who come in for STD testing, for condoms, for birth control, each visit counts once. Abortion counts once. So you can easily see that the number of appointments for "other stuff" will outnumber abortion appointments. However, when it comes to revenue made by PP, abortion counts for much more more than the 3% they like to quote. One can use the stats for whatever purpose you wish.

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    2. And even more than that: Every woman who comes for an abortion gets things like pregnancy test, STD testing, counseling, birth control, etc. So, one abortion patient (the reason for the visit and the payment) is put into various other categories that "count" as services "other than abortion". See how that neat little trick works, times millions?

      Sick, sick, sick.

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  16. Copezio, I think you need to watch all of the videos, especially the unedited versions, because they directly contradict some of your points. For example, Dr. Nucatella stating that clinics would prefer to make a profit instead of breaking even. Then there's the fact that Planned Parenthood is double dipping when it comes to profit then there's the fact that Planned Parenthood is double dipping when it comes to reimbursement - did you watch the video from students for life that Leila included in her post?

    It's actually a myth that only 3% of Planned Parenthood's business is abortion. Even so, would you really want to patronize a business that "only" killed children 3% of the time? Would you put your children in a day care that only abused children 3% of the time?

    You say it would've been better for certain children if they had never been born. I find it odd that you feel you have all the knowledge necessary to make that decision. What if somebody decided that it would have been better for you to have never been born? Would you agree with their assessment?

    You may think that "forcing "a woman to go through pregnancy is barbaric, but I think killing innocent children is barbaric. And given that pregnancy is temporary but death is permanent, it seems only logical that the right to life should supersede the right to bodily autonomy. Also, in 99% of cases, pregnancy occurs as the result of a consensual act. In those cases a woman is not "forest coat at all because she really engages in the act that creates babies, and those implicitly consents to the possibility of pregnancy.


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    1. "Forest coat = "forced" into it

      Sorry, I am on my phone too :)

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  17. Copezio,

    You’re making too many assumptions here. Many of them wrong. Assumptions shouldn’t determine life or death.

    And you’re tabling two different discussions: Those parents who know their child may be born disabled and those who do not know.

    For those who know, even those stats are wrong a certain percentage of the time, so how is the remedy of abortion the better one?

    When you go down two different avenues of thought like this, and call “life” (labor, giving birth) the more barbaric choice is illogical when you compare it right up against the actual violent crime of using medical instruments to pull a human baby’s arm from its socket, where it naturally belongs, and to crush a baby’s body with forceps to kill it.

    Life itself may be barbaric because it includes a level of struggle, but the act of giving life (birth) is not barbaric at all. How you get something as natural as birth to equate to a barbaric act like ripping this limb from that inside of a womb is irrational. And no one knows the level of struggle predetermined for anyone, those born with special needs or not. You cannot possibly see the future with certainty.

    To your point about Planned Parenthood not making profit off of abortion (?!). That’s their primary profit motive. You see how they pad everything regarding their costs for “services”, don’t you? Listen to their own discussion and look at how they layer the costs in one service (abortion). Looks like a six layer cake at the end of the day. Earnings are tucked in and substantial.

    They blatantly discuss cost of baby organs for harvesting and transportation in the second video, and Abby Johnson (at the hearing) blatantly gives monetary figures involved in the business scheme of trafficking baby parts, when she explains the end cost involved in their methods - harvesting to customer’s hands - during her own experience as an employee there.

    How do you say they don’t make a profit?

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  18. Sorry for the delay but I am currently living in China and half the internet is blocked, so it took me a while to view the videos as the software I have use to trick the internet into thinking I'm in the states also slows the process down.
    I am also ridiculously jet lagged so sorry for any typos.

    In the 2nd video the PP Rep never brings up the 'compensation' aspect it is not until the 27th minutes that the video recorder brings it up. Then the video recorder spends the rest of the 1hr or so insisting that the PP Rep was low balling her, continually bought up the money which the PP Rep either changed the subject or at one point said that what the Video rep was suggesting was 'shady' and illegal and she wouldn't have any part of it. She ended saying that the money wasn't important to her, what was important was getting informed consent from the patients, and ensuring that all procedures were based on evidence and were safe, easy and effective. She never once initiated a conversation about money and was never interested in money.

    My personal belief is two pronged I believe "that women are able to struggle with complex ethical issues and arrive at the right decision for themselves and their families. They are the world’s expert on their own lives." They are the world experts on their own lives, they need to have complete decision making power, they need to be able to decide if they can carry a pregnancy and if they can have a child. No one else can or should make that decision for them.
    I also believe that if a women decides she wants to have an abortion she should get it, she should not have to speak eloquently on the matter, her body, her life, her choice.
    The foetus is entirely dependent on the women it can not sustain life, pregnancy and child birth can kill you 650 women died last year due to pregnancy, since 1973 until now 421 with the majority of those deaths happening prior to 1980 in the US.
    If a women has a medication based abortion prior to 10 weeks the risk of death gives the patients a risk of .05% of maybe ending up in hospital.
    In my other home NZ 10 women died last year during child birth (although in NZ every time a women dies in child birth we have government inquiry into it, and have sent people back to University to retrain or barred them from practising we take stuff seriously in NZ) but since abortion has been legal (1977) we have not a had single death as a result of an abortion.
    In NZ abortions are free you go to the nearest hospital clinic meet with a doctor and nurse explain your situation and then you are booked in for an abortion. If this was this the situation in the states then this would solve this perceived 'problem' because there would never be money changing hands.

    No-one should have the right to coerce another into acting against their will, especially when it is a matter concerning their own body. It is barbaric, childbirth when it is wanted is wonderful, it seems a little messy and requires calmness and bravery on the part of the women to do that.

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  19. I am aware that if I had tested positive as a foetus for an abnormality that I would have been aborted, my parents felt that if they bought a child into the world with many of the syndromes or disorders that it wouldn't be fair on the child. My parents have 3 miscarriages prior to me so my existence is pure chance anyway. FYI my parents are the bees knees they are two of my best friends, with whom I talk to about everything, I still seek their guidance at 28. My father retired from teaching to stay home with my sisters children so they wouldn't be put in daycare.

    Here is my view it is Human life vs Human Being. A human being has rights and can sustain itself without having to utilise someone else's body a human life can't therefore the person who it is using can decide what they want to do with there body.
    So I would be appalled and against if a daycare was abusing children because they are human being I am not appalled that Women are making the right decision for themselves and their families (most women who have abortions already have a child) it is also a decision they are legally allowed to make.

    They weren't and they aren't living a life the children I lived with and helped raised, and the sad aspect was the insight they had into their lives, they are now adults who do nothing meaningful with their lives, they all take medication for depression and anger and a whole host of other mental health issues stemming from their mere existence and their insight knowing they are so different and can't be like the other people. Spearing them of their pain would have been something I did in a heart beat, If I could spare their pain now I would.

    I don't believe the ends justice the means, I believe that women have the right to make decisions for themselves and their bodies.

    I absolutely hate people suffering, I do my best to prevent and comfort those who suffer. At age 8 we had a child move who had prader-willie syndrome came and lived with us and my dad created an extremely structured life for M which I had to follow, I was never ever allowed to mention food or eat or drink in front of M, I remember being picked up from school starving(I had a big appetite) but never mentioning it because it would upset M and cause a massive melt down so I kept to myself, I was just a little kid yet for months and years I suffered in silence to try and help limit M suffering. My parents did my best to try to balance out M needs vs mine but most of the time I accepted M's needs were more important.

    I also have a nephew who due to birth trauma is severely disabled, I spend time with him and his parents and the wider family, we love and adore him but it is not easy he requires intense 24/7 care and will until the day he dies, the terror his parents feel about what will happen to him after they die, is palpable they don't want to burden(their wording) their younger son with the responsibility but what other option do they have.
    So I support abortion as it prevents suffering even if the foetus is typically developing, bringing an unwanted baby into world isn't fair or right.

    Sorry this very rambly and disjointed if we were talking face to face this would be much easier, I'm not good at writing my thoughts down. It also doesn't help that the last time I actually slept was in the Moscow airport so I'm a jet lagged three days.

    If abortion returns to being illegal Women will die it is as simple as that, have you seen the documentary After Tiller?

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  20. Copezio, thanks for replying! I only have time to address you first comment for now, but I have a few remarks.

    If you can access it, I really encourage you to read this article, which explains why the evidence in the first three videos points to the fact that PP is selling rather than donating, despite their protestations to the contrary. I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts: http://joshbrahm.com/summarizing-the-strongest-evidence-that-pp-is-selling-not-donating/

    "that women are able to struggle with complex ethical issues and arrive at the right decision for themselves and their families. They are the world’s expert on their own lives."

    Do you believe it is an ethical choice to deliberately kill an innocent human being?

    "No-one should have the right to coerce another into acting against their will, especially when it is a matter concerning their own body."

    But it isn't a matter concerning their own body. It's a matter concerning their body and their baby's body. Do you acknowledge that a baby in the womb has a distinct and unique body of his/her own?

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  21. She (the Planned Parenthood employee) was interested in money. She haggled a price. She joked about wanting a Lamborghini. If she was only interested in keeping a breaking even point, she would not have entertained a conversation about bargaining and checking with other practitioners to see what the going rate is.

    and child birth can kill you 650 women died last year due to pregnancy,

    Out of 3,982,181 births in the US… that’s, what, .02% (?)
    And opposite that is a 99.98% success rate, where women do not die because of pregnancy.

    Pregnancy doesn’t regularly kill women.

    I don't believe the ends justice the means, I believe that women have the right to make decisions for themselves and their bodies.

    But are you following the math here? I mean, we’re talking the reality that death from pregnancy is extremely low.

    And the decision for bodily autonomy always includes the death of the child, and in their mind, it is all justifiable. So it’s either morally justified or not.

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  22. Copezio,

    It sounds like you are a proponent of the "sovereign zone" argument: That a woman's body is her own sovereign zone and she can do with it what she wants, even to a human inside of her. Is that correct?

    There is a problem with that, of course:

    http://jfaweb.org/Tim_Brahm/AutumnSovereignZone.pdf

    Also, science does not differentiate between a "human" and a "human being". They are the same. And a new human being is begun at conception (science). The question is: Is it ever okay to kill innocent human beings? You are saying, "Yes". You are advocating that it's okay to kill human beings who are disabled and might suffer (or cause suffering to the parents). Peter Singer is a well-known philosopher and atheist, and he advocates for the "right" of parents to kill a disabled child up to three months after birth (and then they can be free to "try again" and increase net happiness, and decrease net suffering). He admits readily that there is no salient difference between a baby just before birth and just after. Same child, same moral question. He just happens to fall on the side that if you can take the life within the womb, you should also be able to take the life on the outside of the womb. He admits, scientifically, that unborn human beings are human beings from conception. That is intellectually honest. It's easily proven. But he simply believes that some human beings can be killed at will. You are advocating the same. So, why not after birth, too? What is the difference, except for arbitrary differences (the child's location)?

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  23. So, good news/bad news. The majority of the Senate voted to defund Planned Parenthood, which is wonderful to see. Since they needed 60 votes, it was not enough to pass this time. However, there will be chances in the future.

    As for the Democratic Party and its incestuous relationship with abortion, here it is, from Professor Robert P. George of Princeton:


    This evening's Senate vote pertaining to de-funding Planned Parenthood reveals that there are 55 senators in favor of de-funding (53 of whom are Republicans) and 45 against (44 of whom are Democrats). Speaking for myself, it's hard to fathom how anyone could support continued funding of this organization, knowing what we know about what goes on in its "clinics" and the attitudes of its people, but it is beyond clear now that Planned Parenthood and the abortion industry owns the Democratic Party. I mean, they own it---lock, stock, and barrel.

    Even after pro-abortion forces gained the upper hand in the Party in the 1970s (causing me and countless others to bolt) there remained a substantial and, for a while, far from powerless "Democrats for Life" caucus. Even as an Independent (I hadn't yet joined the Republicans), I was proud to work for the Real Bob Casey when, as governor of Pennsylvania, he was the leader of the pro-life Democrats. We worked with Sargent Shriver and Eunice Kennedy, former New York Governor Hugh Carey (who had returned to the fold), liberal theologian Ron Sider, Village Voice writer Nat Hentoff, and many others. But those days are gone. The Democrats today are the Party of Abortion, and nothing the abortion industry does, however heinous, and nothing its leaders say, however callous, can shake their allegiance. No Wall Street fat cat or Hollywood mogul ever had a more willing or devoted mistress.

    As if to ratify my point and symbolically close the book on the idea of the pro-life Democrat, this evening, Senator Robert Casey, the son and namesake of the Real Bob Casey, cast his vote and his lot with Planned Parenthood. Senator Casey continues to claim to be pro-life, but his claim is now risible. He's supporting an organization that looks for "less crunchy techniques to secure whole specimens" and "crushes a little above, and a little below," to spare desirable organs, because, "you know, people want liver"---an organization that tries to "do a little better than break even" on the hearts, lungs, and kidneys their abortionists extract from "products of conception."

    As I said in an earlier post, somewhere the Real Bob Casey is weeping---for his son and for his party.

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  24. There's only about 2.7 million people served by Planned Parenthood, country wide, that's only 12% of the 21 million people served by community health centers. Defund these leeches! They are not the top dog as they claim in "women's health" or anything close to "health"!

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  25. Leila,
    Interesting PDF I read it. Her Body, Her Choice, that being said women who have abortions are not torturers, they are not wicked or evil, they are making personal and medical decisions for themselves. Her Body, Her Choice.
    Do I support her decisions in the PDF some no some yes, do I believe that a medical professional would support her decisions, however her body, her choice.
    I also believe that view points like that are dangerous they portray women who have abortions incorrectly, in a way that demonises them. I prefer to hear real women's reasons for having abortions, but I also don't believe I have a right to demand the information, if they wish to never say why I had an abortion they still have my support.
    I disagree with Singer I know it seems arbitrary but location matters ability to sustain life without using another human being as a human life support machine matters.
    Nubby,
    Sorry that was jet lag shouldn't have said regularly, but 2 deaths a day with 60% of those deaths are preventable, still places women at risk.
    Abortion is less risky for women. Yes I do believe that abortion is always morally justified because women have the right to make personal and medical decisions for themselves.
    I believe "that women are able to struggle with complex ethical issues and arrive at the right decision for themselves and their families. They are the world’s expert on their own lives."
    JoAnna,
    Yes I believe there is an ethical component to it, to deny the ethical element would be false. Most decisions you make each day have an ethical component. However I believe that women are capable of thinking ethical through and making the right decision for themselves.
    I also read your link, text links are great for China streaming videos on the other hand are almost impossible to watch not unless you want to spent hours trying to watch a 20 minute clip.
    I don't agree with their view of the conversation with Dr Gatter, she shuts down the conversation very briskly when she offered more money. She says she doesn't want more money so I don't know why they say she is haggling for more, she never initiated the conversation it was always the spy. She never participated enthusiastically in conversations about money.
    The how much referred to the number of organs and tissue samples required not the money.
    Her saying she was going to talk to the other clinic wasn't so she could make a profit but as she says she hasn't dealt with tissue donation in a long time and needs to understand the cost involved - the labour, the equipment, the specialist shipment, and storage facilities.
    PP didn't create the poster, an outside company created the poster for advertising purposes, PP isn't the only organisation that would be able to supply tissue samples, I don't think its fair to blame PP for another companies decision.

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  26. edit
    ***that a medical professional would support her decisions NO
    the word no was vital whoops.

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  27. Nubby,
    Sorry that was jet lag shouldn't have said regularly, but 2 deaths a day with 60% of those deaths are preventable, still places women at risk.
    Abortion is less risky for women. Yes I do believe that abortion is always morally justified because women have the right to make personal and medical decisions for themselves.


    For 650 deaths due to pregnancy (the number you gave earlier) that’s multiplied by .6 (how many could be saved), that’s 390 that could be avoided, per your 60% that are preventable in your above comment. The other ones are irrelevant because they couldn’t be preventable.

    So how many abortions a yr are performed? About 1.21 million a yr, say, so that’s almost 3,102 that have to occur to save one woman, according to the numbers. To save one even “save-able”. Kind of a steep price, right?

    You have to lose 3,102 babies to save 1 of those women.
    How is this morally right? Is that a fair trade?

    How do you get around even the basic logic of the math, let alone the emotional side?

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  28. A foetus does not feel pain until approximately the 27th to 30th gestational week (Journal of the American Medical Association), and after that point abortions are typically labour and delivery the four Doctors who perform those abortions euthanize the foetus prior to delivery so no pain for them. The foetus does not feel pain, my primary concern will always be for the women. Secondary concern does the foetus feel pain, but most abortions happen in the first trimester when the foetus sometimes even embryo has no idea what is going on, because it has no conscious, no thoughts nothing. Just cells developing and growing.
    The emotional side of my life takes a battering from many things. I've spent my life being told I'm over sensitive.
    When it comes to Abortion, it is not place to stop someone from getting an abortion, based on how I feel about their decision is not important because I am not living their life. How I feel is irrelevant. It is none of my business to comment, unless I am asked.
    I just recently was asked about my views on abortion by a friend who was pregnant and I responded that I would support whatever decision she made, that she needed to decide for herself. I would be a sounding board but I wouldn't tell her what to do.
    If you succeed and get Abortion illegal again how will you feel when women start dying and end up in hospital with major complications from back street abortions, because the reality is that a certain percentage of Women will always seek an abortions who feel they can not continue the pregnancy, and that desperation will lead to horrifying consequences, isn't safe and legal better than, knitting needles, crochet hooks, coat hangers, hot baths, filling up the womb with horrifying homemade concoctions, throwing themselves down stairs, and killing themselves.
    Any negative feelings I have about abortion are nothing in comparison to how I feel about abortion being illegal.
    I could barely get through the section of the memoir Call the Midwife on it without tears streaming down my face.

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  29. Copezio,

    Reversing RvW will not result in an uptick in back alley anything. It puts the power back into state hands. It doesn’t rip away any “women’s right”. People like yourself just do not understand the law or what it would actually mean. It’s important to understand how that vote even came down and the importance of its reversal on unjust criteria alone.

    And look, now your angle changes to, “Well, fetuses feel no pain.” That’s not even true.

    So far you’ve totally ignored the logic of the numbers, the logic of facts that PP does pad costs in order to profit from abortion, and you’ve ignored the fact that we cannot morally or emotionally assuage any of this.

    See? You keep reaching into the bag to pull out a new slip, “I’ll try this: Well, they can’t feel anything anyway….” Like throwing pasta at the wall to see what sticks. Nothing sticks.

    Emotions cannot be (should not be) the prop, and assumptions that are shown to be incorrect should not be the prop, you know what I mean?

    Pro-life people understand that it’s about saving both mom and baby, caring for both, giving both a chance, giving both love and support. Not extinguishing the candle of the life in the baby to dispose of any “potential of suffering”. That’s unjust. That can never be morally right, even if it sounds like “compassion”.

    Realize, it’s been brought to light that some of these children being aborted are most likely alive when the harvesting begins. There’s really no intellectual defense a person can try to assemble after seeing what those videos illustrate.

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  30. Copezio, kudos for the courage to stand up for your views on the Bubble, even if I can't agree with them.

    I'm trying to understand a statement of yours that you mentioned several times: Women are the world's expert on their own lives. If they are experts, then how come they end up in a situation (pregnancy) that they did not wish to be in, and then go through considerable emotional pain (and often financial expenses) to reverse? Why does an expert not assume full responsibility for the consequences of her action (sex)? Why does the expert not protect and care for the human life developing in her - her own offspring, utterly dependent on her and her alone for his life? If she is unable to look after the child, why not give him the chance of life with loving adoptive parents?

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  31. A fifth video is in:

    http://liveactionnews.org/breaking-it-was-a-twin-planned-parenthood-discusses-sale-of-fully-intact-aborted-babies-in-new-tape/

    Dear God, people, awake from your stupor!!!!! This is evil in its purest form!!! WAKE UP.

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  32. Major admissions to breaking laws in that latest video. Corrupt to the core. Holy fire. And yet God stays His arm. Always mercy, always.

    Everlasting Father, I praise You and I magnify Your holy name!! I call upon You for Your mercy now, not because we deserve it, but specifically because we do not!

    Blessed be the Most Holy Name of Jesus and Mary. Amen.

    “Awake, O sleeper, arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.” Eph 5:14

    ReplyDelete

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