tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post7078591331533658960..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: To our Protestant friends: Fight with us!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger171125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-74499249894387675942012-02-03T08:50:48.443-07:002012-02-03T08:50:48.443-07:00I an not impressed when people quote wikipedia.
T...I an not impressed when people quote wikipedia.<br /><br />The United States does not have a state established religion. My town here in the United States has two Catholic churches, a Baptist church, a Presbytarian (spelling error) church, two Lutheran churches, an Episcopalian church and a Buddhist temple. I am free to attend any one of those churches. Oh, there's a Methodist church too. <br /><br />True, our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.Lenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09173616693453942166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-50751973246632637492012-02-03T08:20:47.377-07:002012-02-03T08:20:47.377-07:00You're ok with the state establishing a religi...<i><br />You're ok with the state establishing a religion (in schools, with school-sponsored prayer), as long as it is compatible with yours.</i><br /><br />I still don't get it. How are people at a school who are engaging in prayer = the state establishing a religion?Bethanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00726068736912870899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35215211263728603632012-02-03T08:06:01.109-07:002012-02-03T08:06:01.109-07:00I don't let error stand, MaiZeke. Sometimes I ...I don't let error stand, MaiZeke. Sometimes I let it slide, but in this case, nah.<br /><br />But when you link me to that legislation, I will concede the point. So, if you could be so kind as to link Congress' legislation establishing America's state religion? Thanks!<br /><br />And if you could, can you explain why the folks who actually <i>wrote</i> the Establishment Clause did not see praying in public by public officials at public events as "establishing" a state religion? (Maybe they should have had MaiZeke there to explain what they really meant by what they wrote?)<br /><br />Thanks so much!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-74086359783169348682012-02-03T07:57:43.881-07:002012-02-03T07:57:43.881-07:00Sigh. I tried, too.
I read somewhere (I think i...Sigh. I tried, too. <br /><br />I read somewhere (I think it was your friend Lisa) that said you were a great combox debater because you didn't actually have to have the last 'word' as it were. I've never seen it.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052774273963187257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-18932610928756041992012-02-03T07:49:03.518-07:002012-02-03T07:49:03.518-07:00Oh, MaiZeke. Sigh.
Oh, well, I tried.
(And, if y...Oh, MaiZeke. Sigh.<br /><br />Oh, well, I tried.<br /><br />(And, if you get a moment, could you be so kind as to link Congress' legislation which established America's state religion? Thanks!)Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-75211004266685612932012-02-03T07:45:59.334-07:002012-02-03T07:45:59.334-07:00I think this helps a lot - I think I'm clear. ...I think this helps a lot - I think I'm clear. <br /><br />You're ok with the state establishing a religion (in schools, with school-sponsored prayer), as long as it is compatible with yours.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052774273963187257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-34667540142653067502012-02-03T07:28:55.420-07:002012-02-03T07:28:55.420-07:00In other words, MaiZeke, I never claimed that the ...In other words, MaiZeke, I never claimed that the Obama regime was establishing a state religion. <br /><br />I am claiming that the Obama regime is prohibiting me from the free exercise of my religion.<br /><br />Hope that helps!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35891671543116952052012-02-03T07:27:20.923-07:002012-02-03T07:27:20.923-07:00No, MaiZeke. You miss the point again.
A state es...No, MaiZeke. You miss the point again.<br /><br />A state establishing a religion says, "This is our official religion -- Church of England."<br /><br />The part of the Clause that is being violated by the Obama mandate is the FREE EXERCISE clause. When someone forces me to sin, by government mandate, I am being prohibited from practicing my faith. If you are forced by mandate to recite a prayer, the gov't is not allowing you to practice your "faith" freely, either. <br /><br />There are <i>two</i> parts here:<br /><br />(1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, (2) <b>or prohibiting the free exercise thereof</b><br /><br />You see, Obama and his ilk talks of "freedom of worship" a lot. I think that is interesting. Exercising my religion is not just the freedom to attend Sunday Mass. It's also about the freedom from coercion by my government to directly participate in sin. A gov't cannot fine me or jail me because I refuse to commit a sin.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-79325983318832540882012-02-03T06:39:52.020-07:002012-02-03T06:39:52.020-07:00Leila is trying to make the fact that a teacher at...Leila is trying to make the fact that a teacher at a government run institution praying to a required assembly for students (or a prayer hanging in a government school building) is not a violation of the first amendment. <br /><br />She says "So, no, you should not expect me to embrace atheist ideals or issues, either. But the minute that the federal gov't mandates that you wear a burka or that you take the Eucharist…I will fight with you and for you, MaiZeke!"<br /><br />To further clarify she says: "The United States government passes a law mandating that all atheists must now verbally recite a prayer to Jesus Christ, publicly, every day, with imposed fines if you did not comply. (The government magnanimously gives you one year to fully comply with the mandate.) "<br /><br />And earlier, she says "Sorry, MaiZeke, when did the government establish a religion (as England did)? Can you show me that working document? " (Just to show she is talking about England as a comparison here)<br /><br />I've been thinking about this -- establishing a religion does NOT mean forcing someone to recite a prayer with fines imposed, nor does it mean forcing someone to receive the eucharist, nor does it even mean forcing someone to go to church every day, or any day. Do you interpret the established church in England this way? If so I am very surprised. I might point you to the Wikipedia article on state religions if you need some background on State Religions in general. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion<br /><br />A state sponsoring a religion generally provides funds and official support for the religion - coercing people to practice the religion is not generally a requirement for an established religion. So - a representative of the government (a teacher) in her official capacity as teacher, presiding over a group of students who are required to be there, who prays to the students is a violation of the first amendment. <br /><br />If you do not stand up for freedom of (from) religion for all, it is very hard to argue the case for you alone.Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052774273963187257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-55699267952661993572012-02-02T23:50:08.873-07:002012-02-02T23:50:08.873-07:00Sarah, thank you! You really have been lovely, and...Sarah, thank you! You really have been lovely, and a pleasure to dialogue with. I do hope you come back, as you are always welcome in the Bubble! Blessings to you, too!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-47102720897629366682012-02-02T23:43:43.400-07:002012-02-02T23:43:43.400-07:00@Leila
I am disappearing from the blog (at least ...@Leila<br /><br />I am disappearing from the blog (at least for a while) because I am very busy with other things. But I want to thank you for making this space available. You certainly do stimulate lively discussion. Also thank you for maintaining such a tone of civility and welcoming everyone to share their opinions. I really appreciate it.<br /><br />I feel I understand Catholics and Catholicism better, which has been my goal. I don't feel as judgmental as I did and I think I am seeing your point about the health insurance thing. It is always a good thing to broaden one's mind and expand one's horizons. Such a relief. I am sorry if I was ever rude; like you, I am passionate about a lot of these issues.<br /><br />Blessings to you and your family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-86911360776067128162012-02-02T22:23:05.910-07:002012-02-02T22:23:05.910-07:00Wait, where is the free chocolate??Wait, where is the free chocolate??Meg @ True, Good and Beautifulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507070127764766394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-74379723680498586722012-02-02T22:05:55.112-07:002012-02-02T22:05:55.112-07:00Lena, all of that is brilliant! Thank you! I hope ...Lena, all of that is brilliant! Thank you! I hope it helps people understand. You are so right.<br /><br />And, the bumpers stickers are amazing, ha ha! True, every one.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-85562957311706324002012-02-02T22:04:23.722-07:002012-02-02T22:04:23.722-07:00Sarah, thanks! I am not sure how the first one squ...Sarah, thanks! I am not sure how the first one squares with abortion being okay in some circumstances, but it's very interesting!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-60132226444304279012012-02-02T20:44:45.228-07:002012-02-02T20:44:45.228-07:00To those who don't understand how wrong this m...To those who don't understand how wrong this mandate is, think of this:<br /><br />Do you think it is morally wrong to give a small child a sharp knife to play with?<br /><br />If you think it is morally wrong and dangerous to give a child a knife, would it be okay for the federal government to FORCE you to give children knives? <br /><br />That's what it's like for us Catholics.Lenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09173616693453942166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-7179030658031026942012-02-02T20:41:19.241-07:002012-02-02T20:41:19.241-07:00Think of the implications if there were no Catholi...Think of the implications if there were no Catholic hospitals.Lenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09173616693453942166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-6726291156260633322012-02-02T20:37:14.502-07:002012-02-02T20:37:14.502-07:00About an hour ago I rec'd a phone call from so...About an hour ago I rec'd a phone call from someone taking a political poll. You can bet told the poll taker I am against Obama and pro-choice organizations. I was smart enough to know that when the called asked about women having access to health care, it meant access to abortion. Of course I want all women to have access to health care, but I know that health care means different things to a Democratic candidate than it does to me. <br /><br />Yes, I think we all should have affordable health care, but let's make sure we know what health care means.Lenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09173616693453942166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-9731434367989492762012-02-02T20:28:58.455-07:002012-02-02T20:28:58.455-07:00Someone needs to make bumper stickers and pass the...Someone needs to make bumper stickers and pass them out that say:<br />"Being fertile means your body is healthy."<br />"The pill has many bad side effects. Read the small print."<br />"All methods of birth control have a failure rate."<br />"Sex often makes babies."<br />"Sometimes condoms break."<br />"IUDs can poke through your uterus."<br />"Free chocolate for everyone." (I just added that one for fun.)<br />"Single men often like to have sex without commitment."<br /><br />Now someone will write that those are bad bumper stickers, but they are all true.Lenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09173616693453942166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-26070232351940904592012-02-02T17:23:29.144-07:002012-02-02T17:23:29.144-07:00Buddhist precepts for householders
Refrain from t...Buddhist precepts for householders<br /><br />Refrain from the following<br /><br />1) harming living beings<br />2) Taking things that are not freely given(stealing)<br />3) sexual misconduct (rape, incest, infidelity--any sexual action that causes harm)<br />4) false speech<br />5) intoxicants (drink and drugs) that cause heedlessnesssarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904627748161555626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-1852377677158072732012-02-02T17:14:14.391-07:002012-02-02T17:14:14.391-07:00The dalai Lama himself says Buddhism is not a reli...The dalai Lama himself says Buddhism is not a religion, though I believe it functions as one in people's lives-- a structure of morality (the dharma), community (sangha), and a figure head --though not a deity (Buddha). As Christians strive for holiness, knowing it highly unlikely any human will be completely holy, Buddhists strive for enlightenment also knowing it highly unlikely anyone will be completely enlightened, as Buddha was<br /><br />There is no deity in Buddhism-- though I really have never understood how reincarnation fits into that--how can someone be reborn with no soul? (I don't believe in reincarnation but I do believe in god, as many western Buddhists do<br /><br />It makes no difference to me if it's a philosophy or a religion or whatever. I just know I'd be dead withou it and no other path is tenable to mesarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904627748161555626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-75495026394009531692012-02-02T17:00:38.146-07:002012-02-02T17:00:38.146-07:00What are the moral absolutes? And what is their so...What are the moral absolutes? And what is their source?<br /><br />You are teaching me and I appreciate it! As I said, I don't know much about Buddhism. I do know that it does not ascribe to a deity, correct? It's a philosophy, basically?Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-61635646846425573982012-02-02T16:53:01.544-07:002012-02-02T16:53:01.544-07:00There are moral absolutes, namely the precepts, wh...There are moral absolutes, namely the precepts, which have stayed steady over time-- though they have been modified for "householders"--in Buddhism there are two classes of people,monks or nuns and householders. The reason is that when non ordained people wanted to receive the teachings it was recognized that it didn't make sense for everyone to be celibate (as monks are)sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904627748161555626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-12435600557902306052012-02-02T16:36:17.479-07:002012-02-02T16:36:17.479-07:00There are different views about abortion in Buddhi...<i>There are different views about abortion in Buddhism. Western Buddhists, with a few exceptions, believe abortion needs to be a an option. I am not aware of more classical Buddhist teachings. </i><br /><br />In Buddhism, do moral teachings change depending on who is in charge or depending on the era? Are there any moral absolutes in Buddhism, or is everything relative to the situation or society at the time?<br /><br />I don't know much about Buddhism, so thanks!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-12975835566778390522012-02-02T16:33:44.360-07:002012-02-02T16:33:44.360-07:00"Of course, abortion, from a Buddhist viewpoi..."Of course, abortion, from a Buddhist viewpoint, is an act of killing and is negative, generally speaking." Dalai Lama<br /><br />This is sad, because he is admitting that abortion kills an innocent human being, but sometimes it's okay to kill innocent human beings. I just will never understand that reasoning. But at least he admits that abortion is killing. I guess that's something?<br /><br />Catholicism holds that one may never, ever kill an innocent human being. The act of killing an innocent human being is intrinsically evil, and nothing can justify such an act.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-59079184656508177262012-02-02T16:16:40.938-07:002012-02-02T16:16:40.938-07:00MaiZeke, one last attempt to make it clearer:
The...MaiZeke, one last attempt to make it clearer:<br /><br />The United States government passes a law mandating that all atheists must now verbally recite a prayer to Jesus Christ, publicly, every day, with imposed fines if you did not comply. (The government magnanimously gives you one year to fully comply with the mandate.) <br /><br />If that ever happened, I would be screaming mad and I would fight like hell for your right not to be compelled to pray that prayer.<br /><br />Such a mandate would be an OUTRAGEOUS overreach by the feds, and completely unconstitutional.<br /><br />And that is the equivalent of what has happened with this contraception mandate.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.com