tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post7056917372777610040..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: Quick Takes: Too much to talk about!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-4516539590723137682012-04-22T06:35:54.298-07:002012-04-22T06:35:54.298-07:00Dismemberment is an ugly word, but that is the ugl...Dismemberment is an ugly word, but that is the ugly truth of abortion.Lenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09173616693453942166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-48701296144943637272012-04-20T22:46:42.610-07:002012-04-20T22:46:42.610-07:00Also, which Catholic practices is it hard to know ...Also, which Catholic practices is it hard to know about? Maybe you could mention them on the newer post….Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35177962040901499822012-04-20T22:45:37.453-07:002012-04-20T22:45:37.453-07:00PS: Motherly instinct is always to protect the lif...PS: Motherly instinct is always to protect the life of her child even before her own. That is a beautiful thing about women and motherhood….Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-56749025128899297012012-04-20T22:44:57.222-07:002012-04-20T22:44:57.222-07:00Johanne, did you read my latest post? I think you ...Johanne, did you read my latest post? I think you will find the discussion interesting as it's based around one of your comments. I'd love to have your Catholic friends pipe in with their thoughts. Thanks!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-80922386342119312152012-04-20T22:33:27.728-07:002012-04-20T22:33:27.728-07:00Leila
Sorry to let this drop. I've been travel...Leila<br />Sorry to let this drop. I've been traveling. Re: the guy eating a big mac. yes, I'd know he was not a vegetarian but that's because I know meat when I see it! :) Not so with many Catholic practices.<br /><br />Regards to the abortion argument. You're right---that is not a direct analogy. I meant the argument of self-preservation, of having the right to protect one's own life. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-7410180056296770802012-04-18T13:10:17.377-07:002012-04-18T13:10:17.377-07:00If a woman wants to kill her baby due to "sel...If a woman wants to kill her baby due to "self-defense," then by all means lets give the unborn due process of law prior to their executions. I'd love to see PP et al charge and prosecute an unborn child for attempted murder.JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-70996359678974781592012-04-18T13:06:57.694-07:002012-04-18T13:06:57.694-07:00Also, Johanne, you said this:
This same argument,...Also, Johanne, you said this:<br /><br /><i>This same argument, by the way, is one of the arguments made by pro-choice people.</i><br /><br />Actually, no. It's not the same self-defense argument. The Church is very clear (and we all know) that a helpless baby can never be an aggressor. The iron-clad principle is that we are never morally allowed to directly kill an innocent human being. And self-defense can only be used in the case of an aggressor. So, both of those points come together very clearly to a 100% pro-life stance. <br /><br />Abortion advocates try to argue that one may kills a defenseless baby in "self-defense" but that is illogical on its face.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-23939155013898906122012-04-18T12:04:49.363-07:002012-04-18T12:04:49.363-07:00Or how about this:
You have two people standing i...Or how about this:<br /><br />You have two people standing in front of you, Paula and Amy.<br /><br />Both say they are practicing Catholics.<br /><br />Paula is for abortion rights and gay marriage and does not attend weekly mass and does not go to Confession and thinks the Pope is an old man, out of touch. She uses contraception and never bothered to get married in the Church.<br /><br />Amy says that abortion is intrinsically evil, is against the redefinition of traditional marriage, gets to mass every week and on Holy Days, frequents confession, loves the Pope and submits to his authority on the teachings of our Faith, wouldn't think of using artificial contraception and has a sacramental marriage. <br /><br />Paula says Amy is a "fringe" Catholic. But Amy lives her life in concert with Church teachings (and when she falls, she gets to confession).<br /><br />Can you tell which Catholic is living according to the Church, and which one has actually rejected Church teaching? I don't think it's too confusing, if we just look at it on its face.<br /><br />(Again, not judging individual souls… just pointing out that it's not as confusing as it first may seem, determining who is living as a faithful Catholic and who is in the "fringe" -- or dissenting -- camp.)Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-87314710803150265952012-04-18T11:51:14.584-07:002012-04-18T11:51:14.584-07:00By the way, here is a litmus test if you want to k...By the way, here is a litmus test if you want to know if a Catholic friend has any clue about the Church and her teachings. Ask how she feels about infallibility, contraception and women priests. If she laughs or says that she does not believe those teachings (or thinks they are outdated and dumb), then she does not understand the nature of the Church. In fact, she stands outside the authority of the Church and in opposition to it. To be a faithful Catholic means, at the very least, knowing that the Church is not a democracy, but is a revealed and received religion. It also requires humility and obedience. And, finally, it requires, at minimum, weekly Sunday mass attendance and attendance on Holy Days, and reception of the Sacraments. One other question you might ask is how often (if ever) they go to the Sacrament of Confession. The response you get could tell you a lot.<br /><br />Again, so many of us understand that kind of ignorance (because we were there), but their word should not be taken as authoritative or knowledgable. <br /><br />If the guy eating the Big Mac said he was a practicing vegetarian, It'd give you pause... I don't think you would be confused about whether or not he was a practicing vegetarian.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-41505673019873315832012-04-18T11:44:17.267-07:002012-04-18T11:44:17.267-07:00JoAnna, thank you. Well put. It's pretty easy ...JoAnna, thank you. Well put. It's pretty easy to know what the Church teaches. It's very clear and available. If folks think that I or JoAnna, for example, are part of a "fringe", then they'd have to think that the Pope is a "fringe" Catholic, too. Of course, they probably do think that, ha ha! But unfortunately for them, the Pope is in actuality the touchstone of Catholic orthodoxy. Want to know what is authentic Catholicism? It's adherence to the teachings of the Magisterium, which is the Body of Bishops in union with the Pope. An opinion which contradicts those teachings? That is what is inauthentic. Your friends may not know that, and it doesn't surprise me. If you read my reversion story, you'll see that most American Catholics are <i>woefully</i> ignorant of what the Church is, what Church teachings are, and what it means to be a Catholic. <br /><br />That's why I started teaching 17 years ago (when I finally figured it out myself) and that's why I have this blog.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-44566969003902891022012-04-18T11:29:10.097-07:002012-04-18T11:29:10.097-07:00@Johanne, it's because Kara said, "Califo...@Johanne, it's because Kara said, "California is full of misguided individuals" and your response to that was that California has the largest percentage of Catholics. Sure, it may have the largest percentage of people that IDENTIFY AS Catholics, but that's different than people who actually identify as Catholic and practice their Catholicism.<br /><br />If I was out at Burger King, and I saw someone who self-identified as a vegetarian eating a Whopper, I wouldn't consider them a vegetarian even if they self-identified as one.<br /><br />And it's actually pretty easy to identify who is living their Catholic faith and who is not, because the beauty of our Catholic faith is fully available for all to read in the Catechism. Therefore, if you come across a Catholic blogger teaching against a truth as explained in the Catechism, that's one example of a person who is not living out their Catholic faith in that respect, even if they identify as Catholic.<br /><br />If you go through the archives of the Bubble, you will not find a single post that rejects any element of the Catechism, so you can be sure that Leila not only identifies as Catholic but also practices her faith in all aspects. Not one of us is perfect in our practice, because we are all sinners, but there's a difference between failing to live up to a teaching that we recognize as valid and rejecting that teaching wholeheartedly. <br /><br />Nancy Pelosi, incidentally, is from California. She is also someone who self-identifies as Catholic but thoroughly and wholeheartedly rejects many aspects of Catholic teaching as found in the Catechism, and moreover <a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/02/nancy-pelosi-claims-your-support.html" rel="nofollow">is on public record</a> as doing so. As a consequence of her public words and actions, she has been instructed by her bishop not to present herself for the Eucharist, and should not be considered an authentic source for Catholic teaching.JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-54989174122343445712012-04-18T11:07:58.641-07:002012-04-18T11:07:58.641-07:00Thank you. This makes sense to me. What I understa...Thank you. This makes sense to me. What I understand this to say is that if life in prison without the possibility of parole is available than the death penalty would not be allowed (according to Catholicism). This seems especially important in light of the fact that some people have been exonerated years of horrible crimes years after their conviction due to DNA evidence.<br /><br />This same argument, by the way, is one of the arguments made by pro-choice people.<br /><br />@Joanna. Yes , that is true that more people in CA identify as Catholic. Though I'm not sure of the relevance of your comment about some people not living by their Catholic faith, unless you are saying that is more commonly true of Catholics in California than Catholics in other states. I don't where Nancy Pelosi is from.<br /><br />As an aside, as a non-Catholic, I only know if someone SAYS they're a Catholic--I can't evaluate whether or not they are living out their faith. For all I know YOU are not a "real" Catholic. I don't mean in any way to imply that you're not, and it's not anyone's obligation to offer their credentials to me, or anyone else. I'm just sharing my bemusement when I hear religious folks claim that other members of their faith are not "real" members of their faith. At times I have described conversations I've been a part of on "The Bubble" to other Catholics and have been told you sound like members of a "fringe." I'm not saying they're accurate, I'm just saying it's confusing. I guess that's why there are so many religions and so many sects within those religions. People feel a need to find their niche.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-51098152789864798142012-04-18T10:15:51.152-07:002012-04-18T10:15:51.152-07:00Johanne, here's how the Catechism puts it:
Le...Johanne, here's how the Catechism puts it:<br /><br />Legitimate defense<br /><br />2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."<br /><br />2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:<br /><br />If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.<br /><br />2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.<br /><br />2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people's rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people's safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.<br /><br />2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.<br /><br />If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.<br /><br />Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."<br /><br />Expanded here: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htmLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-30475817769343822462012-04-18T10:14:41.112-07:002012-04-18T10:14:41.112-07:00Because the State has the legitimate right to prot...Because the State has the legitimate right to protect its citizens from harm. Back in the day before maximum security prisons, sometimes the only way for the State to protect the populace from dangerous criminals was to execute them. <br /><br />Are there more people in CA who identify as Catholic than any other religious group? Probable, especially given that Hispanic people traditionally identify as Catholic, and CA has a large Hispanic population. However, like being pro-life, there are many people who IDENTIFY as Catholic but don't practice their faith (Nancy Pelosi, for example).JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-21047888629667234222012-04-18T10:10:59.168-07:002012-04-18T10:10:59.168-07:00I don't understand why the death penalty is no...I don't understand why the death penalty is not "intrinsically" evil.<br />@Kara: California has over 36 million people in it--I don't think it's logical to assume anything about any ONE individual because they are from California. Also, there are more CATHOLICS in California that there are members of any other Christian group or religious group.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-46065243505663908042012-04-18T10:08:39.987-07:002012-04-18T10:08:39.987-07:00I have to agree with JoAnna. That's hard to se...I have to agree with JoAnna. That's hard to see. In fact, he is not just the most pro-abortion president in the history of the union, but he also crosses the line into allowing infanticide. There is really NO PLACE for this in a civilized society. Someone who allows infanticide is not morally fit to be the leader of the free world.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-81599446420988679122012-04-18T09:55:09.845-07:002012-04-18T09:55:09.845-07:00Identifying as pro-life does not mean one is pro-l...Identifying as pro-life does not mean one is pro-life. It's impossible to be pro-life and support Obama no matter how hard you try to justify it. He's the most pro-abortion president in history.JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-25710855302168816942012-04-18T09:39:12.724-07:002012-04-18T09:39:12.724-07:00She identified as pro-life.She identified as pro-life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-22378179434750880332012-04-17T17:28:12.734-07:002012-04-17T17:28:12.734-07:00catholic bubble leia. i appreciate your satire, i...catholic bubble leia. i appreciate your satire, i appreciate your heart, i appreciate this blog, and gives me more courage to stand up to Truth.maybhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03729888650736423722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-70581955923053052882012-04-17T17:16:16.496-07:002012-04-17T17:16:16.496-07:00i appreciate your satire.i appreciate your satire.maybhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03729888650736423722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-65655446667899613072012-04-15T21:16:14.170-07:002012-04-15T21:16:14.170-07:00Leila,
Thanks again for all that you do. I adore...Leila, <br /><br />Thanks again for all that you do. I adore that amazing statue you posted. Hoping you're having a marvelous Easter Season!Dianna@KennedyAdventureshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302775757558379006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-86542751625566848582012-04-15T19:41:30.849-07:002012-04-15T19:41:30.849-07:00Good for you !!! Welcome back.Good for you !!! Welcome back.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03706439676696291031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-21473854420254576052012-04-15T19:34:40.612-07:002012-04-15T19:34:40.612-07:00Choosey mothers choose choice!! :D *sigh* Yup, the...Choosey mothers choose choice!! :D *sigh* Yup, they love that word.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03706439676696291031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-55538383051323604892012-04-14T18:49:23.719-07:002012-04-14T18:49:23.719-07:00Every crime, on some level, is emotion-laden. Why ...<i>Every crime, on some level, is emotion-laden. Why not offer help and love and forgiveness to the woman who orders the murder of her born child? Why not offer the same to someone who kills anyone else?</i><br /> <br />As, in "we" Catholics/the Church don't/doesn't offer forgiveness, etc? False.<br />The Church will always leave the door open for spiritual healing. <br /><br />If you're commenting on the law of the land, then you have degrees of punishment doled out according to the court system. That's neither here nor there as pertains to the Church nor her members.<br /><br />It's a nebulous point. <br />There is no disconnect as far as grace and forgiveness mercy and healing which are freely extended through the Church to every single person on this earth.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-65205800577867481452012-04-14T17:58:06.917-07:002012-04-14T17:58:06.917-07:00"Every crime, on some level, is emotion-laden..."Every crime, on some level, is emotion-laden. Why not offer help and love and forgiveness to the woman who orders the murder of her born child? Why not offer the same to someone who kills anyone else? "<br /><br />We do.<br /><br />Historically "Crimes of passion" come with reduce sentences because it is less likely the person will commit the crime again. <br /><br />We also allow defenses of diminished mental capacity which include but are not limited to: temporary insanity, battered-wife syndrome, postpartum depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. <br /><br />I'm sorry you see a disconnect but it really isn't there. Law doesn't have unlimited resources they aren't going to spend time investigating and prosecuting a group of people that 90% of the time are going to have a compelling defense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com