tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post5206567879359655371..comments2024-03-09T00:51:33.602-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: Do you think she caught the irony? Can you?Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger399125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-76994109689383794902013-10-10T10:48:24.585-07:002013-10-10T10:48:24.585-07:00I sent a comment but I don't see it. Just want...I sent a comment but I don't see it. Just wanted to say that I believe that Jesus has intervened in my life. I take back everything I said. Can't say more right now because I am in a meeting that I can't wait to get out of. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-53039593148050262932013-10-10T10:30:35.243-07:002013-10-10T10:30:35.243-07:00I want to tell the people on this thread that I ha...I want to tell the people on this thread that I have had a change of heart and I now believe Jesus is a real person and I get great peace in giving my trust over to him. I have been overthinking this. When I start to do that, I just say "Jesus, I trust in you. I can't say more right now but I am pretty excited about it. I believe that he saved my life. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-13269876024845896662013-09-18T06:29:15.821-07:002013-09-18T06:29:15.821-07:00So, if my religion teaches that it's a sin to ...<i>So, if my religion teaches that it's a sin to celebrate gay "marriage," the government has no authority to prevent me from believing and living out that teaching -- in other words, the government cannot prevent me from the free exercise of my religion, in private OR in public.</i><br /><br />Jo Anna,<br /><br />I guess I would have to agree with you. I never said that the state was right. I did say that, give the anti-discrimination laws, the state might have had no choice but to enforce them. But, as someone pointed out, then the problem is with there being such a law in the first case. But the law is necessary to prevent all discrimination, not just this case. <br /><br />It comes down to the problem that because this particular baker had such fanatical religious fervor, she made the worst business decision she could have possibly made. If your religion causes you to make such bonehead business decisions, then there is something wrong with that religion. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-88276047822133630772013-09-17T08:40:21.744-07:002013-09-17T08:40:21.744-07:00Also, Bill, you stated above that none of the arti...Also, Bill, you stated above that none of the articles I provided discounted your theory about Christ's resurrection being faked. On the contrary - please take the time to read the following article, which thoroughly debunks your theory: <a href="http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm</a>JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-18794053721739435332013-09-17T08:38:28.840-07:002013-09-17T08:38:28.840-07:00Sorry for the delay in my response, Bill, it's...Sorry for the delay in my response, Bill, it's been a very busy week.<br /><br />Here's what you don't seem to be getting: <i>the government does not get to determine what my religion calls sin.</i> They do not have the authority to do that. So, if my religion teaches that it's a sin to celebrate gay "marriage," the government has no authority to prevent me from believing and living out that teaching -- in other words, the government cannot prevent me from the free exercise of my religion, in private OR in public.<br /><br />So, just like the government can't tell Orthodox Jews that their laws about keeping kosher are nonsensical, and thus force all Orthodox Jewish business owners to provide free bacon to their employees, the government also shouldn't tell business owners who believe that celebrating gay "marriage" is a sin that they are therefore forced to participate in those celebrations or face penalties and sanctions under the law. JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-85501055310686071522013-09-15T23:29:53.645-07:002013-09-15T23:29:53.645-07:00We never used to disagree on this stuff (abortion,...<i>We never used to disagree on this stuff (abortion, gay "marriage", pre- and extra-marital sex, religious liberty, etc.). It's a shame my kids won't know the America I grew up in. </i><br /><br />I admit that before my mother died in 1966 and the changes that society went through, including the sexual revolution, life was better. I guess, if I really thought about it, I would long for the days of the Kennedy administration. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-5438387090495756232013-09-15T23:14:26.726-07:002013-09-15T23:14:26.726-07:00What's so awful about committing sin? Well, lo...What's so awful about committing sin? Well, look at a crucifix. Sin is an ugly, ugly thing. It put Goodness to death. <br /><br />The Church doesn't "put" anyone in any position. The Church tells the truth, in season and out. It's always saying the same thing. There have been many societies that do not want to hear it, and this has been true for two millennia, so it's nothing we are not used to (the 20th century saw the most Christian martyrs yet). It's just sad, as secular American used to hold the same values as Christian Americans not that long ago. We never used to disagree on this stuff (abortion, gay "marriage", pre- and extra-marital sex, religious liberty, etc.). It's a shame my kids won't know the America I grew up in. A real loss, but not for their souls. Maybe this is the best thing to happen to the Church and her members, for as the wonderful Archbishop Chaput has said, the illusion of easy Christianity is gone.<br /><br />Bill, strange question, but what you do you long for?Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-77634255772177841992013-09-15T23:00:41.407-07:002013-09-15T23:00:41.407-07:00you are fine with the law saying that Catholics ar...<i>you are fine with the law saying that Catholics are discriminators, and if we actually LIVE our faith, we will be lawbreakers and criminals.</i><br /><br />I am not "fine" with it. I just think it is unfortunate that the Catholic Church has put its faithful followers in a position where they have to decide between remaining faithful and obeying the laws, primarily of the state in which they live. <br /><br />Any sensible person would recognize the need to obey state laws that really don't ask for very much and do not force them to do such terrible things. If the laws forced them to gay marry, that would be one thing. But they just prohibit discrimination. What is so awful about that?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-27100454386219629072013-09-15T16:55:29.413-07:002013-09-15T16:55:29.413-07:00I feel that we are fortunate to be living in a tim...<i>I feel that we are fortunate to be living in a time and a place where we have laws and a government that do fairly well at protecting the public welfare and I have little or no conflicts with either.</i><br /><br />Well, that's just fantastic, Bill! I'm glad you, an atheist, feels good about our laws and government. However, may of us Christians do not. Your "good feelings" do not allay my fears, nor my Church's. And I don't think you ever answered: When you see us getting hauled off to jail, or our businesses ruined, will you just smile and nod at the direction of the nation?<br /><br />Weird how you are careful to say that you think that Catholics should live their faith (as it makes them happier, etc.) and that you don't want anyone to lose his/her faith, but then at the same time, you are fine with the law saying that Catholics are discriminators, and if we actually LIVE our faith, we will be lawbreakers and criminals. <br /><br />Nice.<br />Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-396975373859039512013-09-15T12:06:46.322-07:002013-09-15T12:06:46.322-07:00Bill- I'm not so much concerned about seculari...Bill- I'm not so much concerned about secularism as i am that religious people are being pushed back in the shadows. Catholics have had periods of persecution just not as large a scale in recent history. And we've been socially ostracized before. We didn't like it then and don't like it now.Deltaflutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489950329698009256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-79783229256437909312013-09-15T10:27:54.015-07:002013-09-15T10:27:54.015-07:00I believe that there are in some places and there ...I believe that there are in some places and there have been here in the past bad laws and bad governments. However, I feel that we are fortunate to be living in a time and a place where we have laws and a government that do fairly well at protecting the public welfare and I have little or no conflicts with either.<br /><br />The world is becoming more secular, much to the dismay of the Catholic Church and other religious institutions and people. Jim Crow laws and totalitarian regimes are not an issue here at the present time. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-57830903204984435712013-09-15T10:03:47.381-07:002013-09-15T10:03:47.381-07:00Bill- yes. If they do so knowingly then they must...Bill- yes. If they do so knowingly then they must. Choosing to leave the church altogether is a matter of deep reflection of conscience. One that they mustbe sure they want to do. But if they find its more than simply not caring but actual contempt of the teaching than they should consider it.Deltaflutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489950329698009256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-50639978098572717822013-09-15T09:49:46.201-07:002013-09-15T09:49:46.201-07:00Deltaflute, great post!
Bill, you leave so many o...Deltaflute, great post!<br /><br />Bill, you leave so many of our questions unanswered. You pick and choose the ones you want to answer.<br /><br />For example, did the government "have no choice" but to take action and enact Jim Crow laws in the first place?<br /><br />And, if you were in Nazi Germany, a government official, would you have "had no choice" but to escort the Jews onto the trains? <br /><br />I have said that I find you scary. I meant it.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-14720997671918784372013-09-15T09:26:31.684-07:002013-09-15T09:26:31.684-07:00So those who knowingly and willingly refuse to dis...So those who knowingly and willingly refuse to discriminate against gays by providing their goods and services for a gay wedding and who have every intent of continuing to do so must excommunicate themselves. <br /><br />They might as well leave the Church. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-4215107972917998702013-09-15T09:20:47.148-07:002013-09-15T09:20:47.148-07:00So, you would agree that the government "had ...<i>So, you would agree that the government "had no choice" but to arrest MLK, right? </i><br /><br />Of course. I'm sure he fully expected to be arrested. Civil disobedience requires a willingness to be punished. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-57662697222753312522013-09-15T08:46:26.486-07:002013-09-15T08:46:26.486-07:00Bill- There's a difference between knowing wha...Bill- There's a difference between knowing what a cake is for and not knowing. If you just bake cakes and let people randomly pick them up then your not culpable. But if you do know than you cant.<br /><br />Now...if you arent willing to submit to the teachings of the church. Then you should excommunicate yourself until such time as you can. See this post for info.<br /><br /> http://deltaflute.blogspot.ca/2013/06/respect-my-athoritah.html<br /><br />Catholics are obligated to go to Mass fro m age7 (or thereabouts depending on if you can mentally be held culpable). You cant skip Mass without it being detrimental to your soul. But if you do leave the church thats just as detrimental so..<br /><br />Deltaflutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489950329698009256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-37395073995748386912013-09-15T08:42:22.444-07:002013-09-15T08:42:22.444-07:00Leila,
You fault me for saying "I oppose the...<i>Leila,<br /><br />You fault me for saying "I oppose the state taking action but I can see where they might have no choice."<br /><br />Catholics [and Christians] must obey laws.</i><br /><br />So, you would agree that the government "had no choice" but to arrest MLK, right? Because the first time the "state took action" was to make the laws in the first place. They had no choice to make those laws, right? And then, since those laws were in place, they had no choice but to jail MLK and others for violating those laws, right?<br /><br />Is that your thesis?<br /><br /><br />Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-68259468377440707172013-09-15T08:33:40.262-07:002013-09-15T08:33:40.262-07:00if you intend to keep selling cakes for gay marria...<i>if you intend to keep selling cakes for gay marriages theres no point in going to confession </i><br /><br />So. What if I am a Catholic baker who has no interest in what my customers use my cakes for: straight marriage or gay marriage, business is business. Everyone's money is good to me. Should I even bother to go to church anymore. Wouldn't I just be better off working at my business on Sunday morning?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-53461477164968016372013-09-15T07:40:31.616-07:002013-09-15T07:40:31.616-07:00Bill- Your comments are timely. Ive been contempl...Bill- Your comments are timely. Ive been contemplating writting a blog post about confession. Its a common misconception thst you can confess anything and thats that.<br /><br />1) your confession is invalid if you go to confession with the intention of repeating the same sin. In other words if you intend to keep selling cakes for gay marriages theres no point in going to confession.<br /><br />2) this is nof to say you cant go to confession for the same sin. If you go because you lied and intend to stop but than later catch yourself later you can still be forgiven.<br /><br />3) you have to be truly remorseful and willingly to stop sinning. If you take the attitude of oh well theres always confession than again its not valid.<br /><br />5) biblically we are called to tell people when we notice a sin. We arent to speculate but if its obvious. Good example is when you know your child lied to you. You may not like it but its part of our faith.Deltaflutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00489950329698009256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-31968602373757754082013-09-15T07:07:59.874-07:002013-09-15T07:07:59.874-07:00JoAnna,
I misspoke. Of course we have a right to ...JoAnna,<br /><br />I misspoke. Of course we have a right to call something a sin under freedom of speech. What I meant to say is that isn't right. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35988051939772864872013-09-15T06:36:54.783-07:002013-09-15T06:36:54.783-07:00The problem is that the government is forcing priv...<i>The problem is that the government is forcing private employers to directly facilitate and financially subsidize sin.</i><br /><br />JoAnna,<br /><br />No one in this country has a right to call the action of another a "sin". Believe it or not, "sin" is just a religious concept used by, among others, the Catholic Church to symbolize a kind of "debt" that Catholics incur that can be forgiven by going to confession supposedly because the Catholic Church has been given the authority to forgive sins or refuse to forgive sins by Jesus, who is also God. It is not recognized by others and there is no evidence that it has any effect on us once we are dead. <br /><br />So, when you say that a baker providing a wedding cake for a same sex wedding is in some way participating in a "sin", that technically and legally not true since there is no such thing as "sin". Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-22624672756769265552013-09-15T05:45:50.649-07:002013-09-15T05:45:50.649-07:00Leila,
You fault me for saying "I oppose the...Leila,<br /><br />You fault me for saying "I oppose the state taking action but I can see where they might have no choice."<br /><br />Catholics must obey laws. Surely if a person "sins" to comply with the law, it is understandable. So, you go to confession and tell a priest and that makes it all better anyway. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-76856158169866220122013-09-14T19:47:39.804-07:002013-09-14T19:47:39.804-07:00No worries. We've all done it.No worries. We've all done it.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-75868353133030689672013-09-14T15:18:16.641-07:002013-09-14T15:18:16.641-07:00Right. Sometimes my brain doesn't work right.Right. Sometimes my brain doesn't work right. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-90147201350153227642013-09-14T14:48:50.893-07:002013-09-14T14:48:50.893-07:00I think you posted this on the wrong, thread, Bill...I think you posted this on the wrong, thread, Bill:<br /><br /><i>Your brain can be trusted and so can mine. </i><br /><br />It's the newest one.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.com