tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post4530975817676232651..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: An atheist's view: Miss Gwen goes to Mass! *UPDATEDLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-21261229667396206702011-12-01T09:09:41.141-07:002011-12-01T09:09:41.141-07:00Miss G if you are still following this, I would lo...Miss G if you are still following this, I would love to connect with you on Facebook. Send me an email if you are interested (maizeke@gmail.com)<br /><br />MaiZekeMaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052774273963187257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-68529680294614875482011-10-12T09:43:39.106-07:002011-10-12T09:43:39.106-07:00eln, thanks! I mean this only as a timesaver, but ...eln, thanks! I mean this only as a timesaver, but could you point me to the parts of the site which speak of the Catholic principle of subsidiarity? It's something I am very interested in and which doesn't get talked about much when discussing the issues of prudential judgment (as opposed to the non-negotiables). Thanks!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-13808663905381881802011-10-12T09:00:29.480-07:002011-10-12T09:00:29.480-07:00"Thus, I cannot in my own good conscience vot..."Thus, I cannot in my own good conscience vote for a candidate who might share some of the Church's moral teachings but at the same time advocates for no taxes for the wealthy, privatized healthcare, no sex-ed in school or only abstinence programs, and no funding for scientific research on climate change."<br /><br />Except for the sexual education part, there is NO reason why a Catholic should not support taxing the wealthy, sharing the burden of healthcare, or funding for scientific research, To the contrary! I warmly recommend reading about the Church's actual social teaching, something ignored often by those who are Republicans (or Democrats) first, and only then Catholics. <br />http://www.thesocialagenda.org/<br /><br />And the summarizing document - compendium - of what the Church actually teaches is here:<br />http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html<br /><br />Republican, Democrat - it just doesn't fit it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-89838170933798351572011-10-05T22:06:24.750-07:002011-10-05T22:06:24.750-07:00fbc, what a great testimony!fbc, what a great testimony!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-474772658247598342011-10-05T21:08:21.138-07:002011-10-05T21:08:21.138-07:00Color me very impressed with Gwen.
I am a 48 yea...Color me very impressed with Gwen. <br /><br />I am a 48 year old father of four who entered the Church at 33. At the time I started investigating Catholicism, I had no preconceived notions and very little (like Gwen, I could count them on one hand) experience in churches.<br /><br />Unlike Gwen (I assume) I was *very* politically conservative. I was weaned on Bill Buckley's Firing Line and National Review. I had been a volunteer for Reagan, and every other conservative Republican candidate and office holder. <br /><br />When people leaned I was a convert, they often asked "Convert from what?" My answer: "I am a convert from my old faith, the Republican Party."<br /><br />I'm still conservative in most senses on most issues. But I've since learned that politics is only ephemeral -- the Good, the True and the Beautiful (Jesus Christ and His Church) are eternal. The Republican Party will one day cease to exist (please!) but He and His Church will last until the end of time.<br /><br />Since becoming Catholic, I've become devoted to the poor and the marginalized. I am a (very weak) follower of St. Francis of Assisi -- who was famous for his love of the poor and the sick. I have built my professional life on service to the poor (I am an attorney). I do all of this because I love Christ more than I love a political party. <br /><br />Just my thoughts and reactions which may be helpful forfbcallicoat@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15294700262011077463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-48856846141610027722011-09-30T05:25:08.432-07:002011-09-30T05:25:08.432-07:00I want to add my voice to the chorus and say that ...I want to add my voice to the chorus and say that I'm thrilled you went to Mass and shared the experience with us, Miss Gwen! It takes guts and trust to do something that you're pretty sure you won't entirely understand and might not like. Your openness to learning about the Catholic faith makes me really happy to read about. <br /><br />Also, Barbara's comment is totally on target for me. The church having a two-millenia perspective used to be very difficult for me to wrap my head around, but I appreciate it more and more all of the time.<br /><br />-JanuaryWomen for All Seasonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09906270936399814711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-3569383761782698432011-09-29T22:11:16.886-07:002011-09-29T22:11:16.886-07:00Chris in Longmont, thanks for the clarification an...<b>Chris in Longmont</b>, thanks for the clarification and information! I'd love to attend the candle Mass, but I'm too far away.GFNYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003166578358673587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-9784325824357802502011-09-29T16:13:48.246-07:002011-09-29T16:13:48.246-07:00The following is to Miss Gwen from Barbara, who ca...The following is to Miss Gwen from Barbara, who cannot get the darn thing to post!<br /><br /><i>Hi Gwen<br /><br />I meant to post a response to this to you yesterday but the wifi on the<br />ferry decided not to work. Hopefully the baby will stay asleep long<br />enough for me to write. It's funny but your experience reminded me of<br />some of the different masses I went to in Latin America and in Los Angeles both before and during my conversion. When I was in Argentina I was staying a few blocks from the Plaza de Mayo in Rosario (a lot of cities in Argentina have a place called "Plaza de Mayo", not just Buenos Aires) And I was a few blocks from a beautiful Cathedral where I attended mass almost every day (this was very soon after my conversion) Latin American churches are suffused with artwork --gold, marble, wood, paintings, carvings, everything it's almost too much to absorb. Even though Argentina is much more secular than some other countries in the region, the churches are such reverent spaces, so beautiful to look at and to stand in. More modern churches just don't compare.<br /><br />You know, your comment about not wanting to give up your leftist ideals<br />makes sense. I said that too, many times. My beliefs changed over time<br />in stages. First I came to believe in the Who of the Church, than the<br />what. I had some powerful experiences where I was touched by God's<br />presence. Once I recognized, through personal experience, that Christ is<br />exactly Who Catholicism says He is and that He is Present (both in the<br />church and the Church) then I became willing to examine Catholic teachings without prejudice.<br /><br />The most important discovery I made was that the left didn't have a<br />monopoly on compassion. They weren't, as I used to believe, the only ones who act out of love and good faith while those on the "other" side only acted out of interest, greed, corruption or a desire to control others or make people miserable. The more Church teaching I read, the more I could see that the Church was compassionate, that it recognized the same social and human problems that feminism, that socialism and that other leftist branches did, and that its moral code was designed to mitigate those problems. It's teaching on sexuality -- that always seems to be the stickler for lefties or at least it was for me--, was compassionate! It was trying to honor the new life that is created as a product of sexual intercourse, and trying to protect those men and women, who in that union, become incredibly vulnerable.<br /><br />The incredible thing was that the Church had the same ideals I did, but<br />its perspective on them was different. It was taking the<br />two-millenia-long view, I was taking the utilitarian one-generation view:<br />What will make people happy now? what will ease their suffering now? what will allow them to live most freely now? What works now, however, is not going to work in the future. Most utilitarian solutions have short<br />half-life. Birth control may seem all well and good for allowing people<br />to regulate family size now and resolve some of the economic and emotional stress of too many children, but what is a society in which every woman of childbearing age is on hormonal birth-control going to look like in 30, 50, 100 years? How is it going to effect sexual relations in general, sexual ethics, the environment, population growth etc. The Church asks these questions, no one else will.<br /><br />Anyway that's just one example. I really now think that the Church is<br />right on matters of sex. Catholicism has relatively few prohibitions. <br />It's not puritan in any way. It doesn't tell you if you should drink or<br />what type of clothing to wear, or how many kids to have, or whether to<br />work. It leaves a lot of room for people to do what they're called to do.<br />But, when a 2000 year old woman says "no" to something, I am willing to<br />bet she has a very good reason.<br /><br />Barbara </i>Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-43349928496279993742011-09-29T13:31:36.531-07:002011-09-29T13:31:36.531-07:00Gwen - so great to read your feedback!! I am glad ...Gwen - so great to read your feedback!! I am glad you had the opportunity to go. A couple thoughts that came to mind as I was reading:<br /><br />1. The average age of the crowd may have been higher due to it being a week day Mass. As a working woman, I often cannot get to daily Mass (or it's a rush). A lot depends on your weekly schedule, how close you live to your parish, etc. Then again, some parishes just really skew younger whereas others skew older. About 15 years ago, our parish consisted almost exclusively of elderly. Now, there are way more children than adults and the average age is quite young. The Sunday high Mass (like others said) would be an interesting experience.<br /><br />2. So neat they used Latin! Couldn't tell what form it was, but our Novus Ordo parish incorporates a lot of Latin and it's beautiful.<br /><br />3. I have to agree with previous posters that the community aspect is a double edged sword haha. It's one of the greatest blessings and also can be one of the biggest challenges. Sometimes, I totally get why some Saints were HERMITS! Lol. We're flawed, there is TONS of diversity (trust me! We may all sound similar here, but the Catholic faith encompasses - and allows for - a lot of diversity), and yeah, people can just make you crazy sometimes. :) We believe God uses relationships and community - pleasant or not - to help us grow in holiness.<br /><br />4. Speaking of diversity, I attended an Eastern Rite liturgy a few years ago (as in still Catholic - not split off - but Eastern Rite), and it was a veeery different experience than the Latin rite. I think it's easy in the West to forget that there's another half to the Church. Your re-telling reminded me of my that experience of experiencing a liturgy for the first time.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966555296621723142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-52348909072830296202011-09-29T13:12:24.716-07:002011-09-29T13:12:24.716-07:00Kudos, Gwen! We look forward to sharing our faith...Kudos, Gwen! We look forward to sharing our faith with you! ;)Nicole Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115556585264141565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-71959801862978309852011-09-29T12:19:37.901-07:002011-09-29T12:19:37.901-07:00Good for you, Miss Gwen! I am very impressed that...Good for you, Miss Gwen! I am very impressed that you paid such close attention to the homily! The priest would be thrilled - he must wonder sometimes if anyone is listening. :) Although weekday Mass goers tend to be a bit more focused than those on Sunday. Or maybe I should speak for myself.... I think Sunday Mass is longer so I tend to lose my focus, no matter how hard I try not to!<br /><br />Anyhow... maybe some day you'll go to Mass with the eyes of faith. It all looks a lot different that way. Thanks for sharing your experience!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-4796586461420927472011-09-29T06:05:09.226-07:002011-09-29T06:05:09.226-07:00The Girl from New York
When I was attending that ...The Girl from New York<br /><br />When I was attending that parish (almost 4 years ago) the Mass was said in English ... but there were many parts said or sung in Latin. So, it would have been a Novus Ordo Mass.<br /><br />Side note ... shortly before I left, the parish was offering classes in Latin, so that they could begin to offer a fully Latin mass. Don't know if they are now doing the Traditional Latin Mass or a high version of the Novus Ordo ... but I am sure that they are doing wonderful work over there.<br /><br />Side note #2 ... I live outside Boulder, CO. The University of Colorado (Boulder) is offering a candle mass (no electricity) at 9 PM which is again the Novus Ordo but mostly in Latin ... and it is one of the most beautiful and holy experiences that my wife and I have experienced ... ever. My wife was almost in tears at how wonderful and beautiful it was. So, if anyone lives out here ... go check it out. But you might want to arrive early, as they quickly fill up.Chris (Longmont, CO)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01165770738057751820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-9875662628728151682011-09-28T14:04:38.411-07:002011-09-28T14:04:38.411-07:00I wish the whole world were like that. But then ag...<i>I wish the whole world were like that. But then again, if everyone lived in harmony, I guess we'd already be living in Heaven. :) </i><br /><br /><br />Hear, hear. Grandma used to say, "It takes all kinds to make a world." <br /><br /><br />To the point about parish involvement: There are various kinds of ministries available at most parishes, some of the less intimidating for those of the shy persuasion are helping out on the hospitality ministry (bring a dish to funeral luncheons, drop it off, nothing else required) to a women's bible study (where even the quietest people will benefit, if not from the study itself, than just being in a circle of other women willing to learn and share more about their own faith walk, no matter how close or how far from God they believe themselves to be).<br /><br /><br />I believe, and have experienced, that at the parish level, there is something for everyone where we can be a source of encouragement to others, and also be encouraged in the presence of others, no matter the parish politics or power grabbing. People are people, we can't expect perfection...yet.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-6902047800255794982011-09-28T13:45:24.091-07:002011-09-28T13:45:24.091-07:00Girl from New York, thank you for that! You are ri...Girl from New York, thank you for that! You are right, of course, about the parish politics and normal human behavior. It has gotten dicey many times in my parish, too. That's where God gives us the opportunity to practice detachment, prudence, silence, courage, forgiveness, mercy, humility, etc., ha ha! I've had to back away from things before, too, as well as apologize for my own blunderous ways!<br /><br />Great comment.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-36212935431057876122011-09-28T13:42:01.762-07:002011-09-28T13:42:01.762-07:00*behavior*behaviorGFNYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003166578358673587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-63514319349992487752011-09-28T13:40:17.401-07:002011-09-28T13:40:17.401-07:00Chris in Longmont, is the High Mass to which you a...<b>Chris in Longmont</b>, is the High Mass to which you are referring a Novus Ordo Mass said in Latin, or a Traditional Latin Mass?<br /><br />I am asking because it is likely that Gwen and some other readers might not know that there are two valid forms of Mass: 1) the Traditional Latin Mass (aka TLM, aka Tridentine, aka Latin Rite); and 2) Novus Ordo (aka the Roman Rite). The version Gwen attended was a Novus Ordo.<br /><br />As far as basic differences, the TLM is said only in Latin, and it was the form of Mass celebrated prior to 1969, when the Novus Ordo (translates to "New Order") became the primary form as a result of the Second Vatican Council. The Novus Ordo Mass is usually said in native tongues (English, Spanish, Italian, etc.), but is occasionally said in Latin. Also, if you were to attend a TLM Mass, you would notice that the style of dress is generally more conservative and modest, and women and girls normally wear a head covering - a veil, a hat or a scarf. Some women at Novus Order Masses wear a head covering, as a few do at my parish, but it's not the norm, whereas it is at a TLM parish. On a more substantive level, the rubrics are different between the two forms, although, again, they are both valid forms of the Mass.<br /><br />I agree somewhat with Abigail's comments above about the sense of community. Anyone joining a a religious community should enjoy the experience of a common bond of faith and I daresay most likely do. However, religious communities, be they Christian or not, are no different from other communities in such things as cliques, power plays, and other politics. I've seen it in the parish where I grew up (including recent, awful behavior - vicious, concerted attacks against a new pastor for doing some things that had to be done) and in my local parish, hundreds of miles away. Being part of a parish community isn't always "Kumbaya" and holding hands; you might well see human behvior that will make you question your faith. I stay on the fringes of involvement where people know me enough that I do feel like part of the community, but I'm not involved enough to get caught up in the politics.<br /><br />Thanks, Gwen, for your willingness to experience a Mass and for sharing your thoughts.GFNYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003166578358673587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-62581015982478047092011-09-28T13:16:57.136-07:002011-09-28T13:16:57.136-07:00Abigail, I like that challenge!
And just another ...Abigail, I like that challenge!<br /><br />And just another thought: The Mass has both vertical and horizontal elements. We focus our mind and hearts vertically up to God and to the altar (where the living Sacrifice is taking place... another thing you cannot get out in your backyard), and also we are unified with those of our brother and sisters (from every walk of life, every class, every race) whom we come to worship alongside. Horizontal aspect. <br /><br />One of the greatest things about practicing Catholics, faithful to the Magisterium, is that you see friendships -- true, close, beautiful friendships -- between millionaires and those who are quite poor. I've seen it in my own "Bubble" of Catholic friends. There are the uber rich and there are the very poor, and I promise you, the bonds are tight and real. No class warfare, no envy, no condescension. We are all equal in God's eyes, all members of the Body of Christ, and it's a beautiful thing to witness. I wish the whole world were like that. But then again, if everyone lived in harmony, I guess we'd already be living in Heaven. :)Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-43888159490284872642011-09-28T12:35:08.062-07:002011-09-28T12:35:08.062-07:00I'd like to throw out a little challenge to mi...I'd like to throw out a little challenge to miss Gwen.<br /><br />I absolutely agree that we all need "individual" sacred places and rituals. Your delight "in sitting on the patio by the apricot tree drinking coffee spiced with cardamom" sounds wonderful. I feel close to God when I hike in the mountains or take my young kids fishing.<br /><br />However, there is something else human beings crave--community. Getting spiritual refreshment in a public sacred space is something else entirely. Hanging out with the babies crying, and the old folks blowing their noses--praying all together in our humble differences and our deep similarities, that is something other-worldly. That is belonging to the "human family." That is an experience you can never have in your own back-yard, no matter how "inclusive" you are in your party invite list!<br /><br />September 28, 2011 12:34 PMAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14927751448670046314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-61907399878144235932011-09-28T12:02:52.594-07:002011-09-28T12:02:52.594-07:00Yup, the Jewish service I attended reminded me of ...Yup, the Jewish service I attended reminded me of mass too and I always thought that was powerful in seeing the way the church was formed.Karahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08057654080632377742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-51246490607247434552011-09-28T11:58:48.261-07:002011-09-28T11:58:48.261-07:00Gwen, that's hilarious about your dentist! I ...Gwen, that's hilarious about your dentist! I love it! I wonder if you go to my dentist...Second Chanceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01995486505355339008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-60011195487455220072011-09-28T11:17:13.909-07:002011-09-28T11:17:13.909-07:00Gwen,
As far as recommendations, I would recommen...Gwen,<br /><br />As far as recommendations, I would recommend St. Thomas Aquinas in Rio Rancho. They are the most active parish in the entire Archdiocese. The two Sunday services I would recommend are:<br />* High Mass (9 am I think)<br />* Life Teen Mass (5 pm I think)<br /><br />The High Mass isn't, or at least wasn't when I was still living there, in Latin. But it will show you all the bells and smells that is the history of the Catholic Church Mass.<br /><br />The Life Teen Mass, on the other hand, is very lively and active ... but the sense of the sacred is still there.<br /><br />Should you choose to go, let me know. Sometimes these threads are too long, so email is best.Chris (Longmont, CO)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01165770738057751820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-64480705931648635902011-09-28T11:00:14.895-07:002011-09-28T11:00:14.895-07:00I was reminded of him though not too long ago by m...<i><b>I was reminded of him though not too long ago</b> by my dentist who I believe may be Catholic and decided to give me a condensed version of Paul and his conversion while giving me a filling (I was a captive audience to say the least).</i><br /><br />Hmm...<br />Actual graces are being poured out on you, gwen. I know you perhaps don't agree, or don't see it that way. But these gentle presentations of information are coming to you from the loving heart of Christ Jesus. Calling, inviting ... I encourage you to research St. Paul, as Manda has suggested.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-47416602482029982802011-09-28T10:58:45.088-07:002011-09-28T10:58:45.088-07:00Gwen, that is so funny about your dentist. Forced...Gwen, that is so funny about your dentist. Forced evangelization! And you couldn't even reply because your mouth was wide open. If I were a dentist, I would use that tactic on Protestants. ;)Mandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01347616073655350336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-91506686476820947572011-09-28T10:57:21.568-07:002011-09-28T10:57:21.568-07:00Another REALLY good book on the Biblical roots of ...Another REALLY good book on the Biblical roots of the Mass is "The Lamb's Supper" by Dr. Scott Hahn. Also, I've heard good things about "The Jewish Roots of the Eucharist" by Dr. Brant Pitre.JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-70785695691765440062011-09-28T10:55:24.023-07:002011-09-28T10:55:24.023-07:00Manda - The book is very easy to read, but kids an...Manda - The book is very easy to read, but kids and tweens might still need some help. I loved it from the beginning in explaining making the sign of the cross. Invoking God's Holy Name, reminding us of Ezekiel and how certain people, those faithful to God, had a mysterious mark on their foreheads, the mark of the Hebrew letter tahv, which had the shape fo an X or cross, that set them apart from the rest of the corrupt culture. Oh, it is such a good book! Get it! Your kids will love it with your help :)Irene Roehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00378407539466878935noreply@blogger.com