tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post2141131878442339492..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: Guest post by Stacy: Is there an eclipse of reason in education?Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-92175649476343195222011-07-06T21:29:23.471-07:002011-07-06T21:29:23.471-07:00Monica, so true. I know I push my kids' awesom...Monica, so true. I know I push my kids' awesome classical education (public charter!) all the time, but anyone who hasn't seen it should check it out:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FeNykOA4Cg&feature=player_embedded<br /><br />There is a Great Hearts school in an underprivileged neighborhood, and the kids there are getting something they never would in a regular public school in their area.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-72598980789555265762011-07-06T12:51:50.378-07:002011-07-06T12:51:50.378-07:00Ru,
I think what you are describing goes deeper t...Ru,<br /><br />I think what you are describing goes deeper than just parental involvement. Why do they value raising their children well, why do they value being there for them as they grow up? <br /><br />How sad it is that the so-called "war on poverty" has more created poor people, and not really helped them. People became dependent on the state, and therefore not productive, and therefore unable to appreciate why their children needed a good education. That's my take on it. I taught for a brief time with a teen parent program funded by the state and there were teen mothers who were third generation welfare recipients. Welfare (which I support for those who need it) is supposed to help you until you can help yourself. It's not supposed to be the family business. Some of those girls spent more time working the system than learning math. It was frustrating. <br /><br />I do think kids need to learn to analyze literature and learn complex math and physics. It enriches their lives. Kids will use it if they understand it. Imagine all the wasted potential if we don't teach kids why they need to know these things. <br /><br />My $0.02Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-74436481308050842572011-07-06T12:08:29.404-07:002011-07-06T12:08:29.404-07:00"Some kids are never going to understand Phys..."Some kids are never going to understand Physics or be able to analyze Byron. The beautiful thing is that, after they receive their high-school diploma, they will probably never need to." <br /><br />I find this to be a terribly sad statement about our modern lives. Gone are the days when ordinary people might sit around and discuss extraordinary things (at whatever level their inborn intelligence allows them). Instead we all sit around and discuss our favorite TV show. <br /><br />When the education we receive is seen to be almost completely unrelated to our "real life", it's not a surprise that students are not motivated to achieve, and their parents are baffled when pressed to even give their children a reason as to why they should. <br /><br />Is materialism the only motivation left for intellectual development? <br /><br />How could you ever describe this as beautiful?Monicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501575551066939483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-30586488874500671232011-07-06T06:27:22.300-07:002011-07-06T06:27:22.300-07:00Schools with a higher family income level perform ...<i>Schools with a higher family income level perform better - regardless of religious affiliation, public, or homeschooling.</i><br /><br />Yeah but part of me has to wonder, how much is it that the majority of students are <b>really</b> performing better, and how much of it is that parents with a lot of money, hold a lot of weight within a school system, public or private. How many of these parents are manipulating the schools to "ease up" on grading or demanding their children be allowed to retest or simply be given less challenging work so that they're children will "succeed" and "not feel bad about themselves."Bethanyhttp://www.innocenceexperience.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35097364802105761192011-07-06T05:13:19.208-07:002011-07-06T05:13:19.208-07:00If you look beyond the statistics, you can see tha...If you look beyond the statistics, you can see that the real determining factor is parent involvement/encouragement. Yes, income does show the disparity, but people with higher incomes are more likely to think education is important because they themselves probably have their education to thank for their good economic health, and they're therefore more likely to encourage their kids to do well. I've seen this myself in elementary school. My (public) school was right next to assisted housing, and many kids (more than you'd expect in this day and age) who attended my school had parents who were completely and totally illiterate. When forms were sent home with the kids, their parents had to come in and have it read to them so they could draw an X for their name. But in my experience, it was these parents who were ALWAYS there for school events, ALWAYS sent their kids for the extra learning opportunities, if they could afford them (the school had cheap weekend programs that were usually science or math workshops about once a month, if I recall), and (which I think is probably the most important point) ALWAYS backed up the teacher if the kids got in trouble. And their kids, on the whole, did very well.<br /><br />And regarding many above posters, No Child Left Behind totally needs to be abolished. While the idea that all kids can perform at least average in class is sweet, it's unrealistic. Some kids are never going to understand Algebra II (now a state requirement in Florida). Some kids are never going to understand Physics or be able to analyze Byron. The beautiful thing is that, after they receive their high-school diploma, they will probably never need to.Runoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-4709881118929548392011-07-05T20:47:20.111-07:002011-07-05T20:47:20.111-07:00Statistics are are mess when referring to educatio...Statistics are are mess when referring to education unless all demographics are considered. I was gathering information for a debate over a homeschooling law earlier this year. Doing my own research, I found that the factor is family income. Schools with a higher family income level perform better - regardless of religious affiliation, public, or homeschooling.<br /><br />The other issue that goes hand in hand with family income is family participation. If family is involved in the education of their children grades are higher. In lower income homes parents don't have the energy or education themselves to help, or they simply don't understand the need for formal education and focus on what they would consider "street skills." This explains why the high cost of D.C. education results in poor grades, D.C. has low income levels (most top paid employees living outside the city limits). This is seen throughout most large cities.Melly Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14415137481679888744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-47722059041992806762011-07-05T11:07:44.652-07:002011-07-05T11:07:44.652-07:00The funny thing is, I'm running into the same ...The funny thing is, I'm running into the same problem with my high school alma mater. They recently released a 5 year plan for the school and with the exception of briefly mentioning following the service and academic oriented tradition of the order which runs the school (Jesuits), they make NO mention of Catholic identity, faithfulness to the Magisterium, or authentic Catholic teaching. I wasn't Catholic when I went there, I went there because it was the top high school in the state and I hated the public school I was in (culture shock when I moved into that school during my freshman year, but that's a whole other story). But as far as authentic Catholic teaching, it didn't exist, but it did have quality teachers who were willing to go above and beyond the minimum to make sure the students succeeded. Not there aren't teachers out in the Public Schools who are like that, but I think they are more concentrated together in the Catholic Schools.Bethanyhttp://www.innocenceexperience.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-69086955380636744372011-07-05T11:07:16.187-07:002011-07-05T11:07:16.187-07:00That's sad about your local Catholic schools. ...<i>That's sad about your local Catholic schools. What are your ideas for addressing this problem? I didn't always pay attention to it, but I'm starting to see that I not only have an obligation to make sure my kids are taught the truth, without compromise, I'm obligated to be involved in my own community for all kids.</i><br /><br />To be perfectly honest, there a slight bit of irony behind this particular situation, even aside from the fact that my oldest turns 10, today, and obviously a good 4 years away from beginning high school.<br /><br />The irony lies in the fact that my husband is director for the office of catechesis and director of catechetical ministries for our diocese. He actually oversees the superintendent, the Catholic schools and religious education, among other things. He even feels somewhat helpless when it comes to dealing with this high school. An order of Dominican nuns runs the high school, so without a direct word from the Bishop, the diocese has no real control over the school (not that they have much control to begin with, the schools don't need micromanagers). <br /><br />That being said, this particular school has found that they are able to attract the non-Catholic wealthy, elite of the area by promoting their sports program rather than their Catholic identity. In fact that was one area my husband was able to put his foot down. No more Sunday games and modest apparel for the cheerleaders. <br /><br />A friend who was just let go from the Theology/Religion department was so frustrated because everything he wanted to do with his sacraments class was met with negative conflict, because it might make the kids think (the administration used different words to smooth it over, but this essentially the mindset)Bethanyhttp://www.innocenceexperience.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-28792698350738371262011-07-05T10:37:47.164-07:002011-07-05T10:37:47.164-07:00Thank you for an excellent post.
I'm an adult...Thank you for an excellent post.<br /><br />I'm an adult convert to Catholicism and honestly I was SHOCKED at the trouble we ran into at the local parish schools. Now granted, I was in a upper middle class suburb of Washington D.C with a supposedly "excellent" public school, so my experiences may not have been typical. What I ran into was a "great" Parishes, but Catholic schools (with Religious Sisters as their principals!) that were really not "cool" with teaching the Roman Catholic faith.<br /><br />I'm just wondering how many of my experiences were typical. <br /><br />Number 1: No tuition breaks for children of large families. We have 4 kids ages 8 to 9 months. I think we qualified for 50% tuition break for only when my fourth kid reached elementary school aged kid. That meant elementary education would cost us $17,500 a year. <br /><br />As a result, all large families I knew in my parish home schooled. The only Catholics who went to the parish school had 2 (or less) kids.<br /><br />Now I know Mom's like my buddy Lauren suffer from infertility, so I'm not judging any individual families. <br /><br />In general, however, finances caused a big problem with my parish Catholic School. When you make it impossible for large families to send their kids to the parish school you are "self-selecting" big time. It means that (in general) the Moms that tend to go to Daily Mass are not the ones on the PTA. Meanwhile, the Moms that have 1.5 kids and the Merecedes Benz in the parking lot ARE the ones running the Catholic School PTA. The school culture really is impacted by that "small family/desiring worldly success" attitude.<br /><br />It would be interesting to see if my individual experiences are typical and also to see what things we could do to "knit together" the parish so there isn't such a division between parish parents, home-schooling parents, public school parents.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14927751448670046314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-86463962764870040482011-07-05T10:10:15.623-07:002011-07-05T10:10:15.623-07:00Manda- I'm thrilled!!!! I'm so glad you f...Manda- I'm thrilled!!!! I'm so glad you find the program as excellent as I do. I can hardly wait for my 9 month old to be able to use it! :) <br /><br />Monica suggested "The Lost Tools of Learning" and I agree, it is an excellent book. In fact, Laura Berquist references that book. <br /><br />Again, such a great post and conversation starter, Stacy!Lauren @ Magnify the Lord with Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12266540380917036624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-37727189428190554512011-07-05T09:48:23.775-07:002011-07-05T09:48:23.775-07:00Gotcha. I think the irony of the situation is tha...Gotcha. I think the irony of the situation is that there’s this great love of life and big families in our faith, and yet when it comes to Catholic schooling, who can afford it for a family of 3 kids and up and still put food on the table? Sacrifice, yes. Good stewardship, yes. But reality is ... the more kids you have and want to send, the more $ it costs a family, even w/ that discount. <br /><br />I will find out more after my meeting, hoping for clarity and info that will nail down our decision.<br /><br />Thanks for the encouragement.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-74113155921053664532011-07-05T09:40:23.848-07:002011-07-05T09:40:23.848-07:00Manda- there are a couple of things you can read a...Manda- there are a couple of things you can read about Classical education- first, google "The Lost tools of learning", then borrow The Well-Trained Mind, which is a homeschooler's guide to Classical ed. Charlotte Mason also is a good thing to google, as she also used classical education in her schools. <br /><br />There are a few Catholic schools which have adopted CLassical Education as well, with excellent results. I have to run right now, but I'll come back and try to post a few links to articles.Monicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501575551066939483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-52218414210162647742011-07-05T09:38:55.915-07:002011-07-05T09:38:55.915-07:00Sorry Nubby, "helpless" is not a word I&...Sorry Nubby, "helpless" is not a word I'd ever put anywhere near your name. :-) <br /><br />I didn't mean to make it sound so simple either..."pick up the phone, problem solved." I think I'm mostly struggling myself how much to get involved. I don't really want to be on a school board someday, but like you said, "Discern." Always, huh?Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-78876721836578216502011-07-05T09:32:31.611-07:002011-07-05T09:32:31.611-07:00Please don’t misunderstand. My comment wasn’t mea...Please don’t misunderstand. My comment wasn’t meant with a helpless tone, if that’s how it came across. Myself, my family are definitely involved in the parish life, various ministries. And I agree with teaching all kids the truth, not just my own. To be sure, we’re going to meet with the principal to discuss finances. I don’t plan on complaining to him, rather we’re seeking our options financially. I agree, discernment is the key.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-59847371290237320142011-07-05T09:21:12.084-07:002011-07-05T09:21:12.084-07:00*By "poor" I meant "not doing a goo...*By "poor" I meant "not doing a good job."Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-70946065113219969202011-07-05T09:14:10.810-07:002011-07-05T09:14:10.810-07:00Manda and Nubby,
I'm not saying this to tell...Manda and Nubby, <br /><br />I'm not saying this to tell you what to do, but rather because someone said it to me and I'm slowly (stubbornly?) changing my views.<br /><br />Someone I know who is a medical school professor and associated with NCBC told me that Catholics have an obligation to make sure that children are taught the Truth, not just our children but all children. He doesn't even have children but served on his local diocese school board for 10 years.<br /><br />What he said is true. It's not enough to notice problems and figure out what to do with our kids, we have to be involved for the sake of the Church.<br /><br />It takes courage and I don't have a lot of it, but (to switch to another issue) when I did get the courage up to go talk to our Bishop's office about a counselor pushing me to have an abortion in our Catholic hospital, I was SO glad I did. Now the hospital is implementing a new NFP office to combat the OB/GYN's who have morphed over the years and dispense contraception. Pray, get involved, be courageous!<br /><br />And pray some more.<br /><br />If your schools are poor or over-priced in your diocese, why not pick up the phone or schedule an appointment with someone and let them know? That's the principle of subsidiarity. Our Bishops and priest need to hear from us, and they need our support. If something's not right and we know about it, we are supposed to speak up at the local level.<br /><br />It hit me on the head like a brick...duh, priests don't go to gynecological offices. It's the same with education. They need to hear from parents.Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-20192918728273165902011-07-05T08:29:04.853-07:002011-07-05T08:29:04.853-07:00Stacy, I went to school with so many (again, chari...Stacy, I went to school with so many (again, charitable;) wealthy, arrogant kids in Catholic school. The Catholic schools in the area where I live now are VERY expensive (12000+/yr/student) which, if you ask me, discourages large Catholic families from attending. I understand financial aid is available but why is the price tag so high to begin with? Seems elitist?<br /><br />Lauren, I ordered Laura Berquist's 4th grade syllabus and finally feel like I have a decent starting point, so thank you! The curriculum seems respectable and broad!Mandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01347616073655350336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-21833598610167858632011-07-05T08:20:44.069-07:002011-07-05T08:20:44.069-07:00Nice article.
Frustratingly, Catholics who have...Nice article. <br /><br />Frustratingly, Catholics who have big families (or even smaller ones, 3,4 kids) cannot always afford the price tag of Catholic schools. I prefer my kids attend Catholic schooling (as the focus is on the virtuous life right along w/ academics) yet we're in a spot right now trying to discern where to send our eldest. Tuition is very high. And it's economic crunch time. <br /><br />Even if the parish offers help financially, which I know they have for others in the same spot, I don't know I'd feel right accepting it. Pride, maybe? <br />How much help is acceptable to ask for/accept? Regardless, it still won’t solve the future dilemma for sending my younger children to that same Catholic school, as the "discount" just isn't that much off for siblings. <br /><br />Discernment, discernment. St. Sylvia, pray for us all.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-52035127526110657572011-07-05T07:47:59.212-07:002011-07-05T07:47:59.212-07:00Manda,
Are parents who send their children to pri...Manda,<br /><br /><i>Are parents who send their children to private school generally more involved in their child's education?</i><br /><br />I have thought about this. I've met some parents who sent their kids to expensive private schools and it seemed more like a status symbol. The parents sort of seemed more involved, but they were also very busy with their careers and such. Just generalizing of course...<br /><br />There's a private school in our area that costs upwards of $30,000 a year and on several occasions I've found myself in the company of groups of such students who (I'm trying to be charitable) were, frankly, arrogant and not all that pleasing to be around.Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-56097679406536014882011-07-05T07:47:02.320-07:002011-07-05T07:47:02.320-07:00My daughter is in public school, but so far I'...My daughter is in public school, but so far I'm very satisfied. She has learning disabilities and they've been very proactive and communicative in helping us navigate the IEP process. We've been very happy with her experience so far, and she loves going to school.<br /><br />On the flip side, my BIL and SIL had a very bad experience with their daughter's kindergarten (same district, different school). My niece is very bright but very spirited; I think her official diagnosis is ADHD. Rather than working with them, though, the school and teacher refused to work with them (to the point of not reliably giving my niece prescribed medication) and essentially told them, "We don't want her back next year." <br /><br />They're on the waiting list for a very reputable charter school in the area, but in the meantime they switched her to a different public school and she's thriving.JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-23806200498152748122011-07-05T07:40:48.005-07:002011-07-05T07:40:48.005-07:00Sara,
Email me anytime at stacytrasancos@msn.com ...Sara,<br /><br />Email me anytime at stacytrasancos@msn.com and I'd love to discuss it more. <br /><br />We are in the Worcester Diocese and I would feel comfortable sending our kids to any of the parochial schools in the diocese.Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-1351536321106204552011-07-05T07:37:58.487-07:002011-07-05T07:37:58.487-07:00Henry, thank you for your insight.
Fr. Selvester...Henry, thank you for your insight. <br /><br />Fr. Selvester, point taken! Parochial schools are <i>not</i> private schools. They are parochial. There is a distinction between the two. Thank you, that had not occurred to me but it makes so much sense.Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-87914719523150544562011-07-05T07:31:29.143-07:002011-07-05T07:31:29.143-07:00Bethany,
The problem is that the Public School Sy...Bethany,<br /><br /><i>The problem is that the Public School System cannot effectively manage the money they do get in the same way that most, though not all, Catholic schools can.</i><br /><br />Bingo! That's what I think too. The problem is the mismanagement of funds. <br /><br />That's sad about your local Catholic schools. What are your ideas for addressing this problem? I didn't always pay attention to it, but I'm starting to see that I not only have an obligation to make sure my kids are taught the truth, without compromise, I'm obligated to be involved in my own community for all kids.<br /><br />I'm wondering if more us might try to get on local school boards, or at least be more involved with them, public and Catholic.Stacy Trasancoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14638075878905614981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-61213945283246022132011-07-05T06:54:12.994-07:002011-07-05T06:54:12.994-07:00Thanks, Lauren!Thanks, Lauren!Mandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01347616073655350336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-52158011726054425702011-07-05T06:51:43.975-07:002011-07-05T06:51:43.975-07:00Bethany- excellent points
Manda- I wrote about ou...Bethany- excellent points<br /><br />Manda- I wrote about our decision to home-school here: http://cheerfullychaotic.blogspot.com/2010/08/homeschooling-discernment-series-guest.html The classical approach we will take is Mother of Divine Grace, which you can find here: http://www.motherofdivinegrace.org/<br /><br />Hope that helps!Lauren @ Magnify the Lord with Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12266540380917036624noreply@blogger.com