tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post859236605728369342..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: Invite your atheist friends to StrangeNotions.com!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-50574339273958949252013-05-10T17:59:54.824-07:002013-05-10T17:59:54.824-07:00It is an interesting site and obviously a labor of...It is an interesting site and obviously a labor of love. I hope it works out. <br /><br />Honesty, as a former atheist and someone with a number of atheist friends, I never found logic to be all that helpful when talking to atheists about Catholicism. It is very, very hard to have a decision based on logic when you are working from different premises. There tends to be a lot of anger, exasperation and frustration because both sides feel the other side is completely missing the point of what they are saying. <br /><br />Maybe others have a different story, and I would love to hear if so because I've never really seen it work very well. <br /><br />To my friends who appear truly curious about the existence of God I always purpose this exercise. Catholics believe prayer is a way to have a conversation with God. Our highest and best prayer is the Mass. If you want to know if God exists- go to Church. Commit to going to Mass for a month (3 would be best, but just a month if that is all you can stand.) Mass is one hour, one day a week. <br /><br />Go a few minutes early and direct your thoughts to God (basically just think in your head.) Tell him you think this is dumb and you aren't sure He exists but if He does exist maybe He can help you understand what this is all about. Talk to Him like you would a close friend- tell Him what you are worried about etc. Then sit through the Mass. If you think something is funny/odd/stupid try to keep and open mind and tell God (like you would a close friend- Hey this is kinda weird to me.) Every conversation has give and take so try to be quiet and give God a chance to respond. See how you feel at the end of the time frame.<br /><br />I told one of my good friends: If you want to know if God exists- go ask Him and give Him a chance to reply to you. If you aren't going to give God an honest chance to defend Himself- nothing I have to say will convince you.<br /><br />(I always tell them the rules about Communion beforehand.)<br /><br />I don't mind answering their questions about Catholicism and our traditions but if they want to debate the existence of God- I send them to Church. :-)Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155500364598716746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-5692497174240950922013-05-09T11:11:50.333-07:002013-05-09T11:11:50.333-07:00You as well NubsYou as well NubsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-88431095783550724102013-05-09T11:09:50.687-07:002013-05-09T11:09:50.687-07:00sorry meant to say that the title leads one to thi...sorry meant to say that the title leads one to think that the catholic opinion is not wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-85986177974546817442013-05-09T10:07:00.073-07:002013-05-09T10:07:00.073-07:00Thank you! Have a great day!Thank you! Have a great day!Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-68429573672389041192013-05-09T09:22:07.528-07:002013-05-09T09:22:07.528-07:00Nubs,
You can go on for as long as you want with y...Nubs,<br />You can go on for as long as you want with your explanations.<br />But it won't be for me as once you say " I don't care if the question exists. Plenty of unintelligent questions exist, plenty of nonsense exists" I have no real desire to attempt to discuss anything with you.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-16339213309975354542013-05-09T09:18:30.125-07:002013-05-09T09:18:30.125-07:00Chris,
I think the point against the title is that...Chris,<br />I think the point against the title is that the blog (in my understanding) is to foster a dialog about topics between atheist and catholics. However the title itself leads one to think that the no catholic opinion is wrong (strange notions catholics have, we atheist must learn more about them), and that we need to be learned in the ways of catholics and their church (also far to often referred to as truth).<br />At least that is how I see it. Do you at least understand what I am trying to say?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-31872882662915861842013-05-08T22:55:11.788-07:002013-05-08T22:55:11.788-07:00Chris, first of all, you are hilarious! And second...Chris, first of all, you are hilarious! And second, I agree with you that dialogue is shut down so quickly, too quickly, and for the reasons you state. One thing I especially chafe at is the dismissal of great minds (GIANTS) such as Aristotle, Seneca, Augustine, Aquinas, et al., simply because they are not "modern" minds. As if great philosophical truths and wisdom can only be found today? Makes no sense. <br /><br />Thanks for your compliments. I write this blog mainly for Catholics to come to know and learn and love (and be able to defend) their faith, but also for my children and grandchildren to read one day. Which is why I am glad StrangeNotions is out there now, too. :)Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-47237445949050023332013-05-08T22:44:35.147-07:002013-05-08T22:44:35.147-07:00Strange Notions looks amazing and Is so needed. I ...Strange Notions looks amazing and Is so needed. I see a trend of atheists or secular reletivists starting to just dismiss theists and shutting down debate. Somehow any ideas that have even a hint of religious or biblical origin are categorized as unworthy of address. And some Christians that won't take a couple hours to learn how to answer honest questions by people about why they believe from a standpoint of reason. It's all kinda lazy. And a lack of dialogue neVer bodes well historically. So when I see an immediate objection to the name of new website, I say, come on guys. You're really concerned and bothered by that? I love this blog because first I very much agree with Leila's perspective and world view but also because of the awesome debates and sound dialogue, half of which I barely understand. The long debate with Andre a while back just about gave me Bell's Palsy but I learn so much when you guys go the distance . Really , thank you all and please keep it up. It really is appreciated and I hope my kids someday will Be able back at the great dialogues on places like Strange Notions And be able to say "see , they really tried" "this is how you make peace"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188319685568262029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-52059589980708948402013-05-08T22:43:45.099-07:002013-05-08T22:43:45.099-07:00And I'm still confused by your critique, as Br...And I'm still confused by your critique, as Brandon explicitly spells out the meaning of the title and provides the verse in context:<br /><br /><i>Strange Notions gets its name from St. Paul's speech at the Areopagus in Acts 17:16-34. There he proclaimed the Resurrection to the intellectual elite of the ancient world, who responded by saying, "you bring some strange notions to our ears; we should like to know what these things mean." <br /><br />StrangeNotions.com helps those asking the same thing today. Open-minded atheists will encounter reasonable arguments for God and his Church, maybe for the first time in their lives, and like St. Paul's listeners they’ll leave intrigued by these strange notions.</i><br /><br />Maybe there will be atheist contributors in the future, as Brandon has noted. For now, there is no secret about the fact that it is founded, and articles written, by Catholics. I am glad you are reading occasionally, and commenting. Both here and on Brandon's site.<br />Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-33918827477306264612013-05-08T20:16:26.995-07:002013-05-08T20:16:26.995-07:00Well, this is mostly proving my point-the title of...Well, this is mostly proving my point-the title of the site, without too much thought, immediately connotes something incredibly different from the Catholic perspective (confusion, I might add that could have been avoided if there was actual Catholic-atheist collaboration in building the site). Will it keep me from reading something here and there on the site and commenting? Probably not, and I'll be curious to see if there are ever any atheist contributors. Until then, my critique stands.Miss Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503676176409924845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-78245405516053257032013-05-08T18:28:44.929-07:002013-05-08T18:28:44.929-07:00Actually, Gwen, the "strange notions" is...Actually, Gwen, the "strange notions" is in reference to the beliefs of Catholics, not of atheists. So, it's self-depricating to name a site thusly. <br /><br />If atheists are friendly and if they debate in good faith with an eye toward truth-seeking, I don't care at all what the title of their pamphlet or blog would be. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-81134762725401384552013-05-08T17:39:22.330-07:002013-05-08T17:39:22.330-07:00What's the main area of concern? Just the tit...What's the main area of concern? Just the title?<br />Are the words "strange notions" intimidating? It's not "atheists are strange" or some personal attack. It's about notions, ideas, mysteries of the Divine that could easily sound strange to someone unfamiliar w/ the Resurrection.<br /><br />If you put together your pamphlet on Catholicism, I wouldn't care about the title as much as the content. If it was a blog you put together where atheists narrowed their audience with Catholics specifically, I'd chime in, if I felt it worth the effort, no matter the blog title.<br /><br />You've commented on Strange Notions, so you're not too bothered by it, right. <br /><br />Are you bugged by the words Little Catholic Bubble? Afterall, you knew you'd be learning about Catholicism by reading and/or commenting on Leila's blog. <br /><br />Since you were invited to chime in there, why not just bring up topics that you want to discuss on relevant blog posts? Strange Notions has a wide range of posts and lots of decent Catholics. Did you find any of it interesting or worthwhile, besides the post you commented on?<br />Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-78855801114535363522013-05-08T17:25:42.859-07:002013-05-08T17:25:42.859-07:00Here is your context, Miss G: http://en.wikipedia....Here is your context, Miss G: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areopagus_sermon" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areopagus_sermon</a><br /><br />I think you're putting words in the mouth of Brandon Vogt et al if you make such giant assumptions as to why that particular name was chosen. <br /><br />Don't you think Christianity in and of itself is a "strange notion"? The name doesn't sound very complimentary to Catholicism or Christianity, so your last paragraph leaves me puzzled. JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-65061591650194297312013-05-08T17:12:58.823-07:002013-05-08T17:12:58.823-07:00"Miss G, did you miss this part of the post?
..."Miss G, did you miss this part of the post?<br /><br />Strange Notions gets its name from St. Paul's speech at the Areopagus in Acts 17:16-34. There he proclaimed the Resurrection to the intellectual elite of the ancient world, who responded by saying, 'you bring some strange notions to our ears; we should like to know what these things mean.'" <br /><br />JoAnna, I did see the above snippet from the website. The quote and the name of the website still ring alarm bells to me. 1) I have no idea what passage in the Bible this is so I have no context for it-and I'm guessing other atheists probably don't have a firm grasp on all Bible passages either. 2) If the passage is alluding to what might transpire between atheists and Catholics on a website, then it also attempts to put words in the mouths of atheists i.e., that we're all just a-waiting for those "strange notions" of Catholicism to be shared with us so we can be "saved." Far from it. <br /><br />It's almost as if I decided to put together a pamphlet on Catholicism and titled it, "Getting to know Catholics better: The odd lifestyle of these people and other questions you might have before realizing the only logical conclusion is that there is no god" I wouldn't exactly expect it to be popular reading in the Catholic community, nor would I make claims that it was all intended to foster dialogue. I'd expect such material would be offensive, incorrect and probably a bad way of getting to know Catholics.Miss Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503676176409924845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-3782064331883992852013-05-08T15:14:32.112-07:002013-05-08T15:14:32.112-07:00so what happened before the big bang is all about ...<i>so what happened before the big bang is all about math?</i><br /><br />Where is your disconnect in the reasoning between the idea of an infinity and pre-big bang eras, and the fact that the universe has a definite beginning?<br /><br /><i>it's as reasonable to believe the universe just came together as it is to believe god created it.</i><br /><br />How is this remotely reasonable? Where did the matter come from? Where did the energy come from? If we have nothing one instant, then in an instant later, we have a universe, how does this hold to reason that it just showed up? That idea is an impossibility, especially considering that infinite universes are completely cast aside as nonsense.<br /><br />If you are going to assert that "it's as reasonable to believe the universe just came together as it is to believe god created it", you should be whipping out some good arguments at this point. <br /><br /><i>That was my original point though, the question exists whether you think it is illogical or not. </i><br /><br />I don't care if the question exists. Plenty of unintelligent questions exist, plenty of nonsense exists. Pre-big bang eras are irrelevant to the topic<br /><br /><i>But what field proves the existence of god?</i><br /><br />Big Bang cosmology as it relates to the second law of thermodynamics, space-time geometry for time's beginning, quantum cosmology, the BVG theorem, extreme improbability of our anthropic universe, universal constants such as space and time, energy, individuating constants, large scale and fine structure constants, Penrose's calculation of our universe arising amid the phase-space volume of possible universes, philosophical proofs such as Lonergan's proof, proof of a creator of past time, David Hilbert's rejection of infinities, analysis by top physicists that show the contradiction and impossibility of there being a mathematical infinity, causality or causation principles, metaphysical arguments, should I go on?Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-65068674502095553002013-05-08T14:05:37.126-07:002013-05-08T14:05:37.126-07:00so what happened before the big bang is all about ...so what happened before the big bang is all about math?<br /><br />it's as reasonable to believe the universe just came together as it is to believe god created it.<br /><br />That was my original point though, the question exists whether you think it is illogical or not. <br /><br />But what field proves the existence of god?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-84164354557384400152013-05-08T09:09:38.381-07:002013-05-08T09:09:38.381-07:00You were just saying why the question could no lon...<i>You were just saying why the question could no longer be asked. Is that right? </i><br /><br />The question itself is irrelevant, because mathematically speaking, there's no value. No calculations can result. <br /><br /><i>And your answer is because of math?</i> Yes.<br /><br /><i>But now are you saying you agree with the scientist that the big band did indeed create the universe?</i><br /><br />I've always agreed with the BB. There's no correlation between the BB and imaginary numbers that try to grab a hold of infinity. <br /><br />We know when the BB occurred There's a starting point. Infinity is . It's a distraction, even Hawking knows there is a boundary to our universe that all the imaginary numbers in the world can't get chase away.<br /><br />I wouldn't leave off at "the big bang created the universe" because I believe there's plausible evidence, of all kinds, that point to a Creator. The Creator created the matter and energy and by His breath and His word. He thought it, created and said something akin to, "Now!", and boom-- here comes time, space, dimension, matter, energy, laws, where nothing was before, out of His own essence.<br /><br /> <i>when I said there are no provable answers currently. Do you disagree with that statement?</i> <br /><br />Provable about God? Science doesn't prove or disprove God. Where science leaves off, you take to another field and apply what you know to get to a plausible conclusion. <br /><br />Is it reasonable that the universe just came together suddenly on its own? Is it logical or plausible, thinking that nothing gave the initial spark? Is that more reasonable than believing a Higher Being, Super Intellect had to touch our universe?Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-17120215018080365842013-05-08T08:30:33.946-07:002013-05-08T08:30:33.946-07:00right Nubby, you were not answering a question. Yo...right Nubby, you were not answering a question. You were just saying why the question could no longer be asked. Is that right? <br /><br />And your answer is because of math?<br /><br />But now are you saying you agree with the scientist that the big band did indeed create the universe?<br /><br />And yes I agree with you that the pertinent question may well be what you stated. And that is indeed what I was referring to when I said there are no provable answers currently. Do you disagree with that statement?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-15688860862240411712013-05-08T07:37:22.063-07:002013-05-08T07:37:22.063-07:00and I am still not sure how you answered the quest...<i>and I am still not sure how you answered the question. </i><br /><br />I wasn't answering any question. I was commenting on math. My comment regarding Trent's post referred only to the point Trent makes about the math used in regards to there being infinity or an infinity model. To ask, "What came before this universe, and before that, and before that, and before that...?" is irrelevant because the math relies on imaginary numbers. They serve as place holders when solving equations, but there is no value in an imaginary number. <i>That's</i> what I commented on. <br /><br /><i>what started the universe? Has that question been answered definitively? If so what is that answer?</i><br /><br />The Big Bang is the physical answer as to what started the universe. The scientific community agrees upon this theory. The universe is expanding, they've observed red shifting and residual radiation, etc. <br /><br /><b>The more pertinent question beyond the physical beginning of the universe is, "If nothing existed, no dimension, no matter, no energy, no movement, no event then where did all the matter and energy come from?"</b> If there was a big bang, what caused the big spark, or where did the big spark come from?Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-23810346159875058852013-05-08T07:26:57.809-07:002013-05-08T07:26:57.809-07:00Miss G, did you miss this part of the post?
Stran...Miss G, did you miss this part of the post?<br /><br /><i>Strange Notions gets its name from St. Paul's speech at the Areopagus in Acts 17:16-34. There he proclaimed the Resurrection to the intellectual elite of the ancient world, who responded by saying, "you bring some strange notions to our ears; we should like to know what these things mean." </i>JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-9671910281400564902013-05-08T05:38:50.180-07:002013-05-08T05:38:50.180-07:00Nubby
I read what I think is the post, and I am st...Nubby<br />I read what I think is the post, and I am still not sure how you answered the question. Nor am I sure Trent answered the question. Nor am I sure Hawking answered the question.<br />Call me stupid, that is fine with me.<br />But my point is, has been and will continue to be, that the question remains, what started the universe?<br />Has that question been answered definitively? If so what is that answer?<br /><br />Now I guess my question to Brandon should he still be reading.....was your lipstick on a pig and lets talk intelligently (I believe the implication was that I was not) comment snarky? I found it to be so, enough that I almost made a comment that I am certain would have gotten me chastised by Leila even though it would have been quite funny.<br /><br />And Gwen<br />exactly what you said. I agree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-43797304353996037832013-05-07T18:05:39.669-07:002013-05-07T18:05:39.669-07:00Sorry for the late reply. I disagree with the begi...Sorry for the late reply. I disagree with the beginning of the intro video..."Since the beginning of time"-when would that be, precisely?<br /><br />And the questions that follow-we have no idea if our ancestors were asking those questions. The earliest archaeological evidence of ritual activity is 70,000 years ago. Were Neanderthals arguing over the concept of God? Maybe, Maybe not. Listing the names of some influential philosophers and great thinkers is all fine and well too, but there were women who were also great thinkers-why are they not listed?<br /><br />Finally, I take exception to the name of the very site, "Strange Notions" because it seems to me there is nothing strange at all about Catholicism to the Catholic bloggers on the site; rather, the message is that what's strange is that there could be atheists who don't accept Catholic Truth. <br /><br />Until there are atheist bloggers, writers, and thinkers engaging on the site, how can "dialogue with atheists" even be promoted? If this was truly a dialogue and a collaborative effort, there would be an atheist who was co-manager of the site. I appreciate that the "about" page is forthcoming about the Catholic ownership of the blog, but that only gets you so far if you really want "dialogue"<br /><br />Thanks<br />g<br /><br />Miss Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503676176409924845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-6819033632192585842013-05-07T14:03:15.233-07:002013-05-07T14:03:15.233-07:00"You lost me at "hello", ha ha.... ..."You lost me at "hello", ha ha.... "<br /><br />Ha! I'm in the same boat as you are Leila! I think I'll be one of those 'lurkers' I hear about when I visit Brandon's new website. I really can't see myself contributing anything worthwhile for quite some time. Nubby and her formula's proved that to me real fast :)The Ordinary Catholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10949934330239070713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-25764354844651935022013-05-07T13:18:05.213-07:002013-05-07T13:18:05.213-07:00Oh Nubs there ya go again.
Leila, correct I am n...Oh Nubs there ya go again. <br /><br />Leila, correct I am not an atheist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-55256031791955788542013-05-07T10:07:08.202-07:002013-05-07T10:07:08.202-07:00Alan, you are not an atheist, though, correct? The...Alan, you are not an atheist, though, correct? The new site is for atheists and Catholics to dialogue, and you are a believer in God (but not a Christian). In no way am I saying that you should not frequent the new site (I think you should, deinitely! There is so much for all of us to learn!) but I just wanted to clarify. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.com