tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post8070475152304592936..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: Quick Takes: a heart-breaker, a brain-imploder, and a desktop meme clean-upLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger338125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-14881247350418129062014-03-14T16:21:19.410-07:002014-03-14T16:21:19.410-07:00* it means I'm speaking clearly and illustrati...* it means I'm speaking clearly and illustrating for your benefit, and that you're interpreting it as a superiority complex. Am I being unclear in the explanation? Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-53840383689939317002014-03-14T16:18:57.848-07:002014-03-14T16:18:57.848-07:00"Gave you the logical opposite point of view&...<i>"Gave you the logical opposite point of view</i>"<br /><br />Really? Refer me to the logical argument beyond, "I believe some is true, and some ain't". That's not a logical argument, alan. That's the furthest thing from logic. Holy crudNubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-69000197775983612982014-03-14T16:15:54.480-07:002014-03-14T16:15:54.480-07:00What a great cosmic belch of illogic and emotion t...What a great cosmic belch of illogic and emotion there, alan. <br />What exactly about this topic are you not grasping, intellectually?<br /><br />Again, alan, a thing cannot be both "x" and "non x" at the same time, in the same respects. This is the same principle of logic used to disprove infinite past time. If something "is", then we cannot, at the same time, believe its contradiction. <br /><br />The fact that you misunderstand and misapply the logic doesn't mean I have a superiority complex- it means I'm speaking clearly and illustrating for your benefit. Being right doesn't mean I have a complex. It means, actually, alan, that giving you my time and pointing you toward understanding is actually an act of charity. Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-21724325839483801132014-03-14T16:11:18.419-07:002014-03-14T16:11:18.419-07:00Nicole, your soul (conditions, you don't know ...Nicole, your soul (conditions, you don't know my soul) thing makes sense. I understand the difference now. Thanks for that.<br /><br />And "I do have real-life gay friends, you know." I can only take your word for it. I don't know you to know that you do or don't.<br />Funny, I have catholic friends as well. Never once have they felt the need to minister or witness to me. We coexist with our differences.<br /><br />That's about all i can say to that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-17039361901399772152014-03-14T16:04:08.828-07:002014-03-14T16:04:08.828-07:00Nubby
This is quite possibly one of the most ramb...Nubby<br /><br />This is quite possibly one of the most rambling, nonsensical, illogical thing you have written:<br /><br />"Then you, also, are expressing and believing in nonsense. The principle of non-contradiction takes a hammer to this line of thought and smashes it beyond all recognition. It's the exact same principle that underlies all mathematics and all logical reasoning, as well as plenty of philosophy. It is an intellectual smear-job to ignore it. See the very clear definition, example, and walk-through explanation I gave at length to Bill above. I'm not going to recap it here, when it's plain as day for you to review there."<br /><br />Saw your explanation. Gave you the logical opposite point of view. You are viewing "biblical teaching on sexual morality" as one entity, and trying to tell me it's illogical that it can be both right and wrong. I am telling you that "biblical teaching on sexual morality" is not one entity, but rather several different issues. If you take each issue individually (which they are) then some are right and some are wrong. But if you take them all as one, welp, then yes it is both right and wrong.<br /><br />I think your "intellectual superiority complex" is getting a little out of hand.<br /><br />Then you tell me I have no logic. Are you in a glass house with not mirrors?<br /><br />Well we are done, I hope I have the strength to not engage you in the future. You have proven much to me here. None of it what you intended to prove.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-81696775578448589332014-03-14T14:39:37.754-07:002014-03-14T14:39:37.754-07:00Hey Bill, don't answer for me and I won't ...Hey Bill, don't answer for me and I won't answer for you. Deal? Thanks.<br /><br />Alan, to answer your questions, the first two, correct. The rest about going to hell is more complicated. Condensed version: yes, if you sin and don't repent, then you go to hell. BUT...there are "conditions" (for lack of a better word) on that, which we've mentioned here before. You have to know it's a sin. You have to have been presented with the Truth and rejected it. Etc, etc. I can't say that you, Alan, will go to hell. I can't EVER say that, even though I do believe your actions to be sinful. But I don't know you. I don't know your soul. I really feel like this has been said over & over on this blog.<br /><br />If I knew you in real life? I can't say what I would and would not do. It depends on how well I know you. It depends the circumstance that we're in. It depends on the context of the situation. I would not hide my beliefs from you, and I would hope I would be able to be a witness to you. But how in-depth I got with you about your soul and redemption just depends. I do have real-life gay friends, you know. Nicole Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115556585264141565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-42856283307939285052014-03-14T08:26:58.683-07:002014-03-14T08:26:58.683-07:00Would you approach me about your religion and what...<i>Would you approach me about your religion and what I was doing wrong, or sinful or immoral?</i><br /><br />Yes, Alan. Her religion requires that she inform you of what the Catholic Church teaches. What you do with that information is up to you. <br /><br />See these words to me from Johanne: "Clearly no one is going to change their mind because of what you are saying--so why do you continue?"<br /><br />She's right. Give it up. I have, finally. Just wanted to wrap up this thread. I'm not subscribed to any new ones. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-3717320200000422452014-03-13T11:26:30.632-07:002014-03-13T11:26:30.632-07:00"I don't think Bill is using biblical tea...<i>"I don't think Bill is using biblical teachings as his source for what is right and what is wrong. </i>"<br /><br />Yes he is, alan. He made recourse to Jesus' teachings in several areas within a cluster of closely related replies, alan.<br />He is attempting to use biblical teachings as he sees fit:<br />Not with full integrity. Not in coherence of fact. Not in full context. And, especially, not with any logical application or plain interpretation. I showed him this, in various examples.<br /><br /><i>"Yes I get that this is a website run by a catholic, so that is an accepted practice amongst most who post here, but it has been open for dialog, so you have to expect that some may not see it that way.</i>"<br /><br />Alan- I showed him the most exact, objective, clearly principled way to "see it". It's not the gospel according to me. Nor to him. The standard is clear. The confusion is not on my end. The application error is not on my end.<br /><br /><i>"So I think adultery is wrong. And I think homosexuality isn't. So I would say that yes, if I must view the biblical teaching on sexual morality as one entity that it is both right and wrong, and it's a logical conclusion.</i>"<br /><br />Then you, also, are expressing and believing in nonsense. The principle of non-contradiction takes a hammer to this line of thought and smashes it beyond all recognition. It's the exact same principle that underlies all mathematics and all logical reasoning, as well as plenty of philosophy. It is an intellectual smear-job to ignore it. See the very clear definition, example, and walk-through explanation I gave at length to Bill above. I'm not going to recap it here, when it's plain as day for you to review there.<br /><br /><i>"I know you disagree with what I am saying, but can you tell me if you can follow my logic on this? If not I can attempt to elaborate further.</i>"<br /><br />If you displayed any logic, here, alan, I assure you, I would be able to follow it. As it stands...no. There is no logic. We are several thousand degrees removed from any logic, because you're just not seeing the principle of non-contradiction at all. I've generously explained to each point above. There is no confusion on my end.<br /><br />Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-53194221620381205102014-03-13T10:17:41.626-07:002014-03-13T10:17:41.626-07:00Nicole,
Sorry when I write here I forget it's...Nicole, <br />Sorry when I write here I forget it's not the real world. I write what I write aimed at the real world, not the world of catholic blogs, so I understand the confusion.<br />Here's how I rationalize saying you (and this you is religious who believe in hell) not you personally.<br />You want to minister to us because you think we are sinners? Is this factual? (yes yes we are all sinners)<br />You don't want to be a sinner, so you ask for forgiveness of your sins? Is this a factual statement?<br />If you don't repent for your sins you won't get into heaven? Is this a factual statement?<br /><br />So if I am an sinner who will not repent then I will not get to heaven? You minister to me because you hope to save my soul. If you save my soul then I can possibly get into heaven. But if I don't repent then we know I'm a sinner and sinners go where?<br /><br />so maybe you see why I think you know I am going to hell?<br />Sorry if I jumped the broom on this. I apologize for thinking this. <br /><br />Now I'll ask, if we knew each other in the outside world, you knew I was gay, would you approach me and tell me I needed to go to god so my soul would get it's reward? Would you approach me about your religion and what I was doing wrong, or sinful or immoral?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-79084957110480074252014-03-13T10:03:48.630-07:002014-03-13T10:03:48.630-07:00Nubby writes:
"In your view:
The biblical te...Nubby writes:<br /><br />"In your view:<br />The biblical teaching on sexual immorality as pertains to adultery is true.<br />But somehow, you deny it as true, as pertains to homosexual relations. It's a logical contradiction measured against "what is"."<br /><br />I don't think Bill is using biblical teachings as his source for what is right and what is wrong. <br /><br />Yes I get that this is a website run by a catholic, so that is an accepted practice amongst most who post here, but it has been open for dialog, so you have to expect that some may not see it that way.<br /><br />So I think adultery is wrong. And I think homosexuality isn't. So I would say that yes, if I must view the biblical teaching on sexual morality as one entity that it is both right and wrong, and it's a logical conclusion.<br /><br />I know you disagree with what I am saying, but can you tell me if you can follow my logic on this? If not I can attempt to elaborate further.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-43328641750565306562014-03-13T08:05:39.975-07:002014-03-13T08:05:39.975-07:00Johanne did not come from obscurity. She has been ...Johanne did not come from obscurity. She has been a very active contributor to this blog for much longer than you have been here. You may not remember her because you are much newer here. The fact that she felt she needed to comment should tell you something. We have engaged you because we are ever hopeful, but much of our engagement of you has been in frustration if you have not noticed. We try to get you to follow our arguments, stop agitating, stop insulting and throwing bombs, start listening and not throwing out straw men, etc. It is our fault for engaging this, yes. And it is my fault for kicking you off several times and allowing you to come back. Please, stop commenting, Bill, for good. Thanks so much. I may delete your comments from here on in. We are all weary.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-77486016950679655082014-03-13T07:21:34.825-07:002014-03-13T07:21:34.825-07:00As I said, the vast majority of my comments were t...As I said, the vast majority of my comments were to answer questions asked of me. Don't engage me in back and forth discussions and then turn on me and make me out to be a pest just because someone like Johanne comes out of obscurity while we are in the midst of a discussion. Peace. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-53825174243666438002014-03-13T07:10:48.647-07:002014-03-13T07:10:48.647-07:00"It has to do with Catholics trying to unders..."It has to do with Catholics trying to understand and empathize with the rest of the world."<br /><br />I'm pretty sure since we understand the effects of the Fall and are the ones preaching God's mercy (and holding forth the saints as the example of how to live), we Catholics do empathize and understand the world. Do we do things perfectly? No. But we are not crazed lunatics who hate. Did you ever read the words of our Founder? He wanted everyone to believe in Him. And He made no bones about what His followers must do and how they are to live. He preached the Truth in season and out, to the point that He was put to death. He told the Truth, but He loved all, even as He knew that many would reject Him and His message. Is He lacking empathy and understanding?<br /><br />And yes, debating atheists is one thing, but you don't debate most of the time. You agitate. And you ignore so much of what you have already been told about Catholicism. It's not really a debate anymore, is it? I don't get why even when the pro-"choice" liberal non-Catholics are telling you to please stop, you still keep going? You are not adding anything to the discussion anymore. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-56327246591935656162014-03-13T03:39:32.443-07:002014-03-13T03:39:32.443-07:00Johanne,
Just so we are clear, I want to point ou...Johanne,<br /><br />Just so we are clear, I want to point out that I am just trying to answer questions asked of me and am not intentionally flooding the site with controversial comments. <br /><br />From Leila's bio:<br /><br /><i>This summa cum laude Boston College graduate also <b>loves to debate atheists, ...</b></i><br /><br />So it is not inappropriate for an atheist to engage Leila in a reasoned discussion. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-39560357358681227452014-03-13T02:35:43.592-07:002014-03-13T02:35:43.592-07:00I'm trying to get your standard for measuremen...<i>I'm trying to get your standard for measurement for when something is objectively wrong,</i><br /><br />Ok. I get it. We need God to give us objective standards to live by. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-55185873125016037202014-03-13T01:59:34.944-07:002014-03-13T01:59:34.944-07:00Bill-statements like these have nothing to do with... <i>Bill-statements like these have nothing to do with learning about Catholicism.</i><br /><br />No. It has to do with believers and nonbelievers coexisting with one another. It has to do with Catholics trying to understand and empathize with the rest of the world. I would think that you would be more open minded about that concept. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-25643993219314234392014-03-12T22:22:24.655-07:002014-03-12T22:22:24.655-07:00Thank you, Johanne, for your honesty.
Bill, reme...Thank you, Johanne, for your honesty. <br /><br />Bill, remember that Johanne is not Catholic. I think perhaps you need to just read and ponder silently, as it does appear that you are not contributing to the conversation productively. Thanks for understanding. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-86341160249220125162014-03-12T20:19:46.737-07:002014-03-12T20:19:46.737-07:00It is not true to me that we should love God with ...<i>It is not true to me that we should love God with all our everything because to me there is no God. </i><br /><br />Bill-statements like these have nothing to do with learning about Catholicism. It's just blurting out things that you know will get a reaction. Clearly no one is going to change their mind because of what you are saying--so why do you continue? It looks like you're bored or trying to get attention or both. I don't know why Leila has so much patience with you. It's none of my business, really, but you have dominated the blog for so many weeks that it's not an interesting place to learn things anymore.<br /><br />Sorry for whining! Be well. Johannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07861467738117604139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-10292249823439652982014-03-12T19:02:10.033-07:002014-03-12T19:02:10.033-07:00And to clarify, I am talking about cheating on tes...And to clarify, I am talking about cheating on tests, lying on resumes, etc.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-66739416504830087402014-03-12T19:01:16.419-07:002014-03-12T19:01:16.419-07:00So it's wrong to betray a trust because you wo...So it's wrong to betray a trust because you wouldn't like it? So it's a "feelings" thing?<br /><br />Adultery is a form of cheating and deceit. You know that more and more students (college, high school) think cheating can be okay if it furthers their ends. That is the social construct that is changing and evolving around the concept of cheating. When will it be moral to cheat? When 51% of people are okay with it? I'm trying to get your standard for measurement for when something is objectively wrong, but I keep seeing that it's all dependent on construct or feelings. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-29785222331514317032014-03-12T17:07:42.811-07:002014-03-12T17:07:42.811-07:00JoAnna,
If I trust my wife not to have an affair ...JoAnna,<br /><br />If I trust my wife not to have an affair and she does, that is wrong whether I find out or not. That is why I would not cheat on her. I wouldn't want her to cheat on me. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-71867803857422142552014-03-12T16:09:46.688-07:002014-03-12T16:09:46.688-07:00That's not even remotely close to what the bib...That's not even remotely close to what the bible says, Bill. <br /><br />I've now reached maximum DLC (defunct logic capacity)<br />Tapping out!Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-1223104153697089202014-03-12T16:06:01.896-07:002014-03-12T16:06:01.896-07:00Why is it wrong to betray a trust, Bill?Why is it wrong to betray a trust, Bill?JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-41222591073439818932014-03-12T16:03:19.769-07:002014-03-12T16:03:19.769-07:00In your view:
The biblical teaching on sexual immo...<i>In your view:<br />The biblical teaching on sexual immorality as pertains to adultery is true. <br />But somehow, you deny it as true, as pertains to homosexual relations. It's a logical contradiction measured against "what is"</i><br /><br />Adultery being wrong has nothing to do with the Bible. Adultery is wrong because it betrays a trust whether it is cheating on someone of the same or opposite sex. It is not wrong just because you think "Thou shalt not commit adultery" was magically etched on a stone tablet. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06976342950011924171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-76429151620455195972014-03-12T15:58:57.119-07:002014-03-12T15:58:57.119-07:00"A good moral teaching strikes a chord in peo...<i>"A good moral teaching strikes a chord in people and they accept it. </i>"<br /><br />If someone's a good moral teacher, is he wrong? Was he only right 50% of the time? What kind of "good moral teacher" is wrong that much of the time?Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.com