tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post3121299383406132196..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: Obama slaps Catholics againLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger134125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-84744248807711644092013-12-02T14:22:53.206-07:002013-12-02T14:22:53.206-07:00M. Albinoni, I'm late in the game here, and tr...M. Albinoni, I'm late in the game here, and trying to catch up, but from what I can see, you're arguing that abortion is safer now (ie: better for women) since it's legal? And that we shouldn't make it illegal again because it makes women unsafe? Yet you're against abortion and you think the goal is to change hearts instead of laws. Am I right? Please do correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said...I'm quickly skimming comments here!<br /><br />You're right in that pre-Roe, numbers were HIGHLY exaggerated with regards to women dying in illegal, "back-alley" abortions. This was the pro-aborts' tactic in making abortion legal. So yes, they were exaggerated. However, these "back alley" abortions were performed in the same clinics they're done in today. By the same doctors. Using the same instruments. The only difference is that these "doctors" could now put "abortion services" on their signs. So the legality of the procedure didn't make it any safer...their methods didn't change one iota. Most abortion clinics aren't even regulated by law (thus aren't inspected by health departments even) in the same manner as most health facilities.<br /><br />Here in Delaware is a great example. I don't know how much pro-life news you read, but within a span of 5 weeks in January through March of this year, FIVE women were taken by ambulance from our local PP to the ER. That doesn't seem very safe to me. And as PP isn't regulated in the same way as ambulatory surgical facilities in this state, those women could have died from their complications on the way to the hospital.<br /><br />So, if I'm reading you correctly (again, please correct me if I'm wrong!) and you're stating that we shouldn't make abortion illegal because it could make more women die, you're very, VERY mistaken.<br /><br />This is a good commentary on the subject: http://chastity.com/chastity-qa/birth-control/abortion/before-abortion-was-legal<br /><br />I've got more on the subject, but only so much time to write right now! :)Nicole Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115556585264141565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-48175531810437017282013-11-30T17:49:06.741-07:002013-11-30T17:49:06.741-07:001.) I feel like I'm beating a dead horse about...1.) I feel like I'm beating a dead horse about this "bitchy/effeminate" issue. Fine, you weren't offended, but I was. I will stand by my original statement: feminine descriptors should not be used as an insult. The next time you see a woman get called a "bitch", a "whore", or even the c-word (I hate that word so much I don't even want to type a bleeped out version of it), ask yourself why male descriptors are not generally used as insults. Better yet, try to call someone a "gigolo" and see if they take offense. <br />2.)I'm not on here extolling the "safeness"of abortions. I'm simply arguing that illegal abortions will be unsafe, certainly less safe than abortions done in hospitals or accredited clinics. <br />Thanks for the links to the blog. It looks really interesting (and well written). I will read through his posts. I actually have no problem with the proposed Texas law. To me, it's makes good medical sense: it's good patient care. If you perform a procedure on a patient that carries risks of complications that may require hospitalization, then you <b>should</b> have admitting privileges or some sort of transfer agreement with a hospital. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02045462732302427068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-10534475260696493802013-11-30T17:15:34.158-07:002013-11-30T17:15:34.158-07:00LOL. You are totally right. I'm 100% sure I ...LOL. You are totally right. I'm 100% sure I made some statements in 2005 that I regret today! I'm sure I made some statements <b>last month</b> that I regret today!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02045462732302427068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-32587301474614481632013-11-30T17:13:18.871-07:002013-11-30T17:13:18.871-07:00Well, I'm not sure if you got my point, if you...Well, I'm not sure if you got my point, if you think I'm arguing to flood inner cities with money and infrastructure. The solution is way to complicated to distill into one statement, and in my opinion, resource distribution does play a role. I guess lack of love for your fellow man does play a role, too, so how about we just say we are both right? :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02045462732302427068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-84347279436004532002013-11-30T17:10:25.984-07:002013-11-30T17:10:25.984-07:00Point taken. I guess I just found it suspicious b...Point taken. I guess I just found it suspicious because he waited up until the campaign to distance himself from Rand. If she was really the one person to be "credit(ed)" for his public service career, and then he had a sudden epiphany about how unChristian-like her policies are, then I would've thought he would've at least said something about it before he ran for VP. <br />I know I read Ayn Rand in high school and I had an immediate, visceral reaction of disgust to her work. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02045462732302427068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-36556019953805084382013-11-30T17:05:18.396-07:002013-11-30T17:05:18.396-07:00I have no idea what her motives are. I don't ...I have no idea what her motives are. I don't know her, her writings, or anything else she has said.<br /><br />I'm sure the numbers are fudged. Who knows how many women died? It's probably less than the thousands some pro-choice people claim, and more than what Dr. Calderone says. I certainly don't know. Like I said, I would need to do some serious detective work to find out, and even then, I'm not sure that the number i come up with will be accurate. But is that really the point here? Ultimately, women died and <i>will</i> die from unsafe abortions. I don't think anyone can dispute that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02045462732302427068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-7410297748318701012013-11-29T22:27:55.642-07:002013-11-29T22:27:55.642-07:00James (and everyone), I highly recommend a thoroug...James (and everyone), I highly recommend a thorough read of the following George Weigel article re: the Pope's latest exhortation:<br /><br />http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304017204579224030204080004<br /><br />Good stuff!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-89327357243492173462013-11-29T19:18:12.906-07:002013-11-29T19:18:12.906-07:00"As recently as 2005, Paul Ryan was singing R..."As recently as 2005, Paul Ryan was singing Rand's praises in a speech he gave to the Atlas Society."<br /><br />That was 8 years ago. One of the great things about being Catholic is we acknowledge we are always a work-in-progress. When people change and grow, especially in the direction that brings them closer to God, we have to be careful not to use their past a a bludgeon against them. <br /><br />I'm sure we all said things in 2005 which we would not say today. Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155500364598716746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-85555138559389412792013-11-29T19:09:32.918-07:002013-11-29T19:09:32.918-07:00M. Albinoni- You missed my point. If it was a res...M. Albinoni- You missed my point. If it was a resource distribution problem, then all we would have to do is flood poor neighborhoods with money to solve the issue. Funny thing, is that has been tried and typically fails. The problem really isn't the resources. The lack of resources is a symptom of a larger problem. <br /><br />Think about it. I've lived in Chicago myself. Obviously, the town does not lack for food or money. So why the problem? Are y'all just too stupid to figure out the logistics? Of course not!<br /><br />So I stand by my comment: It is not a resource distribution problem. Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155500364598716746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-7075329579487025562013-11-29T15:37:40.404-07:002013-11-29T15:37:40.404-07:00Very interesting, especially the comment by one J_...Very interesting, especially the comment by one J_Cathelineau who is an Argentine. I learned something from him!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35338463190827319752013-11-29T15:20:09.463-07:002013-11-29T15:20:09.463-07:00"...doesn't that set off your BS radar ju..."...doesn't that set off your BS radar just a little bit?"<br /><br />Not really, because until I was in my 30s, I didn't know enough about Ayn Rand to know that her worldview was un-Christian. I was ignorant, sad to say. I got "enlightened" about that as I grew and matured. And after it was pointed out, I considered the info and adjusted my conscience accordingly (that is the great thing about the Church and obedience and bending one's will; I had to do that on a lot of issues). I guess someone could say I was full of it back then, but in fact I was just uneducated. I would assume that is what happened to Ryan, someone tipped him off, but I really cannot speak for him. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-63664190317034741952013-11-29T15:15:28.397-07:002013-11-29T15:15:28.397-07:00Girl From New York, thank you for the links and in...Girl From New York, thank you for the links and info! <br /><br />One more thought, M. Albinoni, what do you think Dr. Mary S. Calderone's motive was for saying what she did in 1960? She was not a Catholic, not on "our side". Was she simply mistaken when she said that most abortions pre-Roe were performed by physicians and were done safely (laughable term for abortions, but you know what I mean)? <br /><br />Numbers of deaths were lied about (fabricated) in the past (Dr. Nathanson admits they lied like a rug about the numbers), and today we still have women dying from (legal) abortions. The line that stuck out for me in the page below was that we don't see any pro-"choice" people crying tears for the women who die <i>today</i> from legal abortions:<br /><br />http://www.priestsforlife.org/lte/lte27.htmlLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-46092007972403649162013-11-29T14:58:49.126-07:002013-11-29T14:58:49.126-07:00M. Albinoni, wow, that is a lot to look into and t...M. Albinoni, wow, that is a lot to look into and test or refute. I can't get to it now (just home for a few more minutes, then gone again).<br /><br />First, have you ever read any of the works of Bernard Nathanson, M.D., who was a prominent abortionist and a founder of what became NARAL? And, in your first paragraph about hospitals' non-reporting, are you talking present tense, past tense (pre-Roe) or both?<br /><br />Second, when you say "resource distribution problem", what do you mean? That a lack of nice facilities and money for education (computers, labs, etc.) is the reason that inner city schools do not educate the children in their charge? Because I really do want to respond to that, if so.<br /><br />Did the kids in those schools have intact families, by and large (fathers)? That part I am just curious about. I know that Catholic inner city schools, for example, can do a great job educating and lifting up even those kids, and they can do it for less than what the state spends per pupil, but again, that is another issue. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-1214178789134367242013-11-29T13:52:02.619-07:002013-11-29T13:52:02.619-07:00One more thing, according to Fr. John Zuhlsdorf, t...One more thing, according to Fr. John Zuhlsdorf, there was an error in the widespread translation of the Pope's economic comments that changed the meaning of what he said. Surely, that wasn't intentional.<br /><br />http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/11/evangelii-gaudium-54-trickle-down-economics-significant-translation-error-changed-meaning/GFNYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003166578358673587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-5851773809629125842013-11-29T13:47:03.794-07:002013-11-29T13:47:03.794-07:00I've been sick the past few days, so I haven&#...I've been sick the past few days, so I haven't been up to joining in the discussions here. I'm a little better today and am going to try to catch up on things I've let slide but before I do, some comments:<br /><br />1) Effiminate: I've used the word before and I'll use it again. I am a woman and I find it not to be derogatory towards women at all.<br /><br />2) The misnomer of "safe." Is abortion, or any other invasive (as I understand it, involving entrance into the body cavity) truly "safe"? Doesn't abortion at any stage carry the risk of infection? Of hemhorraging? Of uterine perforation? Of scarring? My goodness, I had minor surgery on a limb and I had to sign my life away regarding acknowledging the danger of the procedure.<br /><br />What about the Kermit Gosnells? He was licensed, I believe, he and his staff provided abortions in filthy, unsanitary conditions. Here's the grand jury report, if you can stomach it:<br /><br />http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf<br /><br />What about states such as Calfornia, that have expanded abortion access to allow first trimester abortions to be provided by non-physicians and non-surgeons (midwives, nurses, physician's assistants)?<br /><br />http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB154<br /><br />Really, people? Are any deaths or complications from abortions provided through this expanded access going to be made public, or will they come to light in as they did in the Gosnell case and be brushed off by the abortion industry as exceptions, as it did with Gosnell? <br /><br />This is not about providing "safe" abortion access, but providing profit. Abortion isn't about healthcare. It's a multi-million dollar industry, subsidized by the government. It's about profit. <br /><br />I've said it before: Women are profit mules for the "women's/reproductive 'healthcare'" industry, starting with birth control from the time they become sexually active (which is why sexual activity is encouraged at younger ages by PP) to abortions and then to infertility procedures (IVF and similar) when women have put off childbearing so long they've tossed aside their fertility.<br /><br />Also, remember that Texas law that the pro-aborts were against? Following is an excerpt about its provisions. (For the full text, go here: http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/11/texas-abortion-law-left-in-effect/)<br /><br /><i>"The law requires any doctor in the state who is going to perform an abortion to have professional privileges to admit patients to a hospital within thirty miles of the site where the abortion will take place. The challengers had argued that this provision, enforced by a criminal fine of up to $4,000 for a violation, will have a particularly harsh impact on pregnant women in Texas’s rural areas.</i><br /><br />Basically, they want women in rural areas to have abortions without the benefit of qualified local emergency care. (IMO, 30 miles for something that's a medical emergency is stretching the concept of "local.") Why wouldn't you want women to have access to emergency care? <br /><br />Here's a great discussion by Gerard Nadal about abortion practitioner standards vs. practitioner standards of other procedures. You need to read this fully:<br /><br />http://gerardnadal.com/2013/11/15/opposing-admitting-privileges-and-board-certification-for-abortionists-some-questions/<br /><br />There's plenty of other great information, including scientific research about the harm that abortion does. There were some posts about links between abortion and breast cancer that I didn't have time to find, but if you really want to educate yourself about how "safe" legal abortion is not, in many aspects, you should take some time to read through Dr. Nadal's blog and the links he provides in his posts.GFNYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02003166578358673587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-74826692288962399442013-11-29T11:57:19.473-07:002013-11-29T11:57:19.473-07:00As recently as 2005, Paul Ryan was singing Rand...As recently as 2005, Paul Ryan was singing Rand's praises in a speech he gave to the Atlas Society. He even cited her as, “[T]he reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.” Of course he quickly distanced himself from these statements when he was running for Vice President, but doesn't that set off your BS radar just a little bit? :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08701043942979791482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-39847558588883696392013-11-29T11:49:51.152-07:002013-11-29T11:49:51.152-07:00Leila, Johanne was right. Common sense would dict...Leila, Johanne was right. Common sense would dictate that illegal abortions would be under-reported in surveys and unreported or under-reported in hospital records. There would be NO records of women who sought abortions in illegal/back-alley clinics, as these places wouldn’t report them, and when these women present to hospitals with abortion-related complications, they will not be recorded a such. In addition, there will be no records for women who do not seek post-abortion care in hospitals or other facilities but experience morbidity associated from the abortion such as prolonged bleeding or local infections. If a woman dies of sepsis from a botched abortion, the cause of death on her medical certificate will be “sepsis”, not “sepsis from a botched abortion”. Some causes of death may be more clearly attributed to abortion, such as bleeding from cervical or vaginal trauma, but ultimately, the incidence of post-abortion mortality and morbidity will be considerably underestimated. <br /><br />I had first hand experience in the difficulty in obtaining accurate statistics today, as I was searching for epidemiologic studies about abortion prior to its legalization. Even with my institutional access to several medical journals, I really couldn’t find anything, as most of these studies cannot be found online anymore. I would literally have to go to a library where these issues are archived or on microfilm for me to get you any real statistics. I do have an excerpt from a book that cites some sobering numbers, though: <i>The maternal mortality study conducted by the Children’s Bureau, first reported in 1931, spotlighted the magnitude of maternal mortality due to illegal abortion. This study, of over seven thousand maternal deaths in fifteen states in 1927 and 28, found that illegal abortion was responsible for at least 14 percent of the nation’s maternal morality. Another major study of maternal mortality in New York City by the New York Academy of Medicine found that 12.8 percent of maternal deaths were the result of septic abortion…Taussig estimated that approximately fifteen thousand women died every year in the United States because of abortion.(Reagan, Leslie J. When abortion was a crime: Women, medicine, and law in the United States, 1867-1973. University of California Pr, 1996.) </i><br /><br />Worldwide, the numbers are even more troubling, especially considering that these are <b>recent</b> studies: <i>Nearly all unsafe abortions (97%) are in developing countries. An estimated 68 000 women die as a result, and millions more have complications, many permanent. (Grimes, David A., et al. "Unsafe abortion: the preventable pandemic." The Lancet 368.9550 (2006): 1908-1919.)<br /><br />Each day 192 women die because of complications arising from unsafe abortion; that is one woman every eight minutes, nearly all of them in developing countries. (Shah, Iqbal, and Elisabeth Ahman. "Unsafe abortion: global and regional incidence, trends, consequences, and challenges." J Obstet Gynaecol Can 31.12 (2009): 1149-1158.)</i><br /><br />Manda, I would submit that I know a lot about end of life options, specifically because I deal with advance directives and do not resuscitate orders <b>all the time</b> as an emergency physician. Please tell me where the ACA empowers "bureaucrats (to determine) what point our lives are no longer worth keeping around". The whole death panel lie has been dealt with and there are several good articles that can show you this. This on is a pretty good one, I think: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/palin-vs-obama-death-panels/<br /><br />Kat -- The "homeless, the hungry, and the ignorant" are caused by " a lack of brotherly love"? I'm sorry but that is incredibly naive, and incredibly wrong. Have you actually been in an inner city project? have you seen their schools? Have you heard of the concept of "food deserts" in the projects? I did my residency at Cook County Hospital in Chicago. I have been in inner city school clinics. Trust me, there is a BIG resource distribution problem.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08701043942979791482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-67620250472397314162013-11-29T11:19:38.013-07:002013-11-29T11:19:38.013-07:00Chris, good point!Chris, good point!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-83240755408775870692013-11-29T11:09:57.047-07:002013-11-29T11:09:57.047-07:00I think most Americans don't have a clue who A...<i>I think most Americans don't have a clue who Ayn Rand is, honestly.</i> <br />Probably true, but she was still quite influential. And you often bring up Peter Singer, even though most people don't know who he is either.Chris Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02256704303520776966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-68806689210790528982013-11-29T10:45:24.591-07:002013-11-29T10:45:24.591-07:00"Everything you say is quite true, but I can&..."Everything you say is quite true, but I can't be happy with a system where people still starve or are malnourished, people are still homeless, children don't have access to good education, and so on."<br /><br />Of course, we shouldn't be happy. We should strive to help where we can and when we can. But we are the best decision makers for how our money should be spent and we are ultimately responsible for our care of our brothers and sisters. Not some organization- government or otherwise.<br /><br />But the reason we have the homeless, the hungry, and the ignorant is the same reason they will never leave us. They are the fruits of evil men and women. It isn't a resource distribution problem, it is a lack of brotherly love. Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05155500364598716746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-89212052315850543162013-11-29T10:40:05.991-07:002013-11-29T10:40:05.991-07:00"Some people, even Paul Ryan, think it is com..."Some people, even Paul Ryan, think it is compatible, and that's part of our problem."<br /><br />I think Ryan put in a bunch of caveats to that. He liked her in his youth. I think most Americans don't have a clue who Ayn Rand is, honestly.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-9165804630888495262013-11-29T10:31:15.968-07:002013-11-29T10:31:15.968-07:00Chris, Ayn Rand is one of the "architects of ...<i>Chris, Ayn Rand is one of the "architects of the Culture of Death" and her stuff is not compatible with Christianity. </i><br /><br />I know it's not; that was my point. Some people, even Paul Ryan, think it is compatible, and that's part of our problem.Chris Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02256704303520776966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35869440667436680932013-11-29T10:28:46.255-07:002013-11-29T10:28:46.255-07:00The poor in this country still have more opportuni...<i>The poor in this country still have more opportunities than most people in history have had. </i><br /><br />Everything you say is quite true, but I can't be happy with a system where people still starve or are malnourished, people are still homeless, children don't have access to good education, and so on.Chris Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02256704303520776966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-18513074025203970122013-11-29T10:23:16.642-07:002013-11-29T10:23:16.642-07:00Kat, I totally agree with you, too! Exactly. I thi...Kat, I totally agree with you, too! Exactly. I think that a lot of times people who are on the left completely ignore the truths of human nature and the practical world. They have utopian ideals, but trying to enforce those leads to tyranny and immorality (note the Soviet experiment… horrifying). <br /><br />Chris, Ayn Rand is one of the "architects of the Culture of Death" and her stuff is not compatible with Christianity. <br /><br />Hey, here's the ideal: Live the virtues (whether in the big city or small towns). Respect the Catholic concept of subsidiarity. <br /><br />I really believe that America could have done things right, if we hadn't become an entitlement state (48 million Americans on food stamps? Fatherless inner cities, with no "push" from the top to encourage marriage and children after marriage, etc.), and if we had continued to heed John Adams' statement:<br /><br />"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."<br /><br />We are seeing that played out.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-84664431418183494872013-11-29T10:06:22.741-07:002013-11-29T10:06:22.741-07:00Well, in the world we have we are never going to b...Well, in the world we have we are never going to be perfect, as you said. I agree that God and religion encourage many of the greatest virtues, but we've also had those things for a very long time without achieving anything close to ideal.<br /><br />My best guess is that we have to slay the false (metaphorical) gods that have been allowed to coexist alongside God. Overt greed for material wealth cannot coexist with Christian values, but some of the same people who wish everyone would read <i>Atlas Shrugged</i> also go the church every Sunday. And on the other end of the spectrum, liberals often say that whatever makes an individual person happy is okay, even though this can really be another sort of greed, to focus entirely on one's own desires. Is it bad to look for happiness? Of course not, but one can easily be a slave to the things that they think will make them happy. Can a person serve two masters? Not easily. <br /><br />In terms of more concrete ideas, perhaps we would all be better off living in small communities spread out, rather than bunching ourselves together in cities. It's easier to dehumanize or ignore people in large numbers, whereas in a smaller group you would know everyone and be unable to completely ignore anyone. You'd have to get along somehow. The small group would hopefully be able to work things out together without resorting to the state as an intercessor. Perhaps they'd step in for each other when someone had fallen on hard times. Of course, there are some advantages that cities offer, and modern society seems to be built around consolidating everyone together. It would be tough to change this.Chris Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02256704303520776966noreply@blogger.com