tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post2690852878492840605..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: A new lowLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger216125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-56221572384968810192012-11-03T15:14:48.247-07:002012-11-03T15:14:48.247-07:00Mary, great question. I hope CS will answer, but I...Mary, great question. I hope CS will answer, but I think among modern feminists, those relationships would be fine. It's only the relationships exclusive to women (wife, mother) that are disdained instead of exalted, for some reason. Again, I and others here have contended that the true oppression of women is the suppression of that which is uniquely of women.<br /><br />So, here are the things which oppress us and make us "less than" men, apparently: 1) Our female biology, including the great gift of being able to conceive and bear children (those biological functions must be suppressed, and we must fight for myriad ways of doing so), and 2) Our roles as mothers and wives (those roles must not define us, be the core of who we are, or become our identity). I don't know what it is that is uniquely "woman" that feminists love? I can't figure it out. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-34201889759897171452012-11-03T12:17:06.503-07:002012-11-03T12:17:06.503-07:00I guess I don't understand what it means to be...I guess I don't understand what it means to be defined by relationships. Isn't everybody? Unless you exclusively work with animals or robots, are you not in relationship with everybody? A coach is in relationship with his players. A doctor with her patients. A teacher with his students and coworkers too...Why is that a bad thing?maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-34078923321978603242012-11-02T19:26:57.829-07:002012-11-02T19:26:57.829-07:00Angela, that is such a good way to raise your boys...Angela, that is such a good way to raise your boys! I ask mine: "Who is the strongest man in the world?" They know that (aside from God), it's "The one with the most self-control!" I thought I was being clever with that, but then I found that there is a Bible verse which says the same thing, which I should have known. People used to teach and know this. And society actually used to support parents who trained children up this way. Can you imagine if the culture reinforced the teaching of sacrifice and self-control?Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-34530213451159622912012-11-02T18:39:06.854-07:002012-11-02T18:39:06.854-07:00Mary, thank you. I hope that by teaching my 2 boys...Mary, thank you. I hope that by teaching my 2 boys (and my daughter)that anything worth having is worth work and sacrifice and that most often doing the "right" thing is the most difficult it will translate to sex and marriage and other relationships. Along with building that foundation of chastity and God's design for marriage. I hope... :-) I feel bad for my husband too. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-48529873227767270672012-11-02T18:24:57.747-07:002012-11-02T18:24:57.747-07:00Angela...I am sorry you are going through this...I...Angela...I am sorry you are going through this...I have three boys, and sometimes...I wonder how a person is supposed to tell a boy, in this totally sex-saturated culture, that you are supposed to be faithful to one person...It goes against all their drives, and the whole culture is telling them they should satisfy it...I am sorry for you, but also sorry for your husband. maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-69909957747187874452012-11-02T18:20:34.528-07:002012-11-02T18:20:34.528-07:00Following up on Nubby's comments...My sis in l...Following up on Nubby's comments...My sis in law runs a very successful web design firm...she designs many of the sites you see for the big corps. She keeps telling me how she thinks women should go into programming. Her designers need to be on call all the time, and have trouble with part-time, as they always need to be available...but her programmers get a set packet of work to do...go do it and then do a bit of bug fixing, but they can work from home easily and on their own schedule as long as they meet the deadlines...she does not know why women do not go into programming more... i have no answers for her, except that programming can be kinda anti-social, and women tend to be somewhat social....I am a science person, but I find programming all day tedious.maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-64217862243542681542012-11-01T17:57:28.204-07:002012-11-01T17:57:28.204-07:00And that it is still difficult for a woman who is ...<i>And that it is still difficult for a woman who is a mother and a wife, not to be defined by her relationships</i><br /><br />My suggestion here to remedy the above: become Catholic. Or at least Christian.<br /><br />Why? Because no one defines you (limits you), besides your Creator. It's a freedom and a comfort. People will always give us great joy and great disappointment, CS. But they shouldn't "define" us, as in "limit" us, negatively. <br /><br />If you are baptized, you belong to the Eternal Father. He's imprinted his mark on your soul. You are His. It is more than a nice sentiment. It's a spiritual truth. <br /><br />As for sexism and all that, we'll always have that as long as we are humans in a fallen world.<br />Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-34354856337891635572012-11-01T17:53:37.088-07:002012-11-01T17:53:37.088-07:00PS: I am proud to be defined as a mother and wife....PS: I am proud to be defined as a mother and wife. If I could use three words that I would most love to be remembered as, it would be "mother, wife, Catholic". I don't mind being "defined by my relationships" to what I love, whom I love, and the most important things to me. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-77337501643336949312012-11-01T17:50:33.745-07:002012-11-01T17:50:33.745-07:00CS, you have described a fallen world. Yes, in a f...CS, you have described a fallen world. Yes, in a fallen world, sin will always exist. Not just sexism, but many, many other types of sin, too. Let's work to be on the right side of <i>all</i> of that. In societies not based in Judeo-Christian values, the plight of women is much, much, much worse. Praise God for Christ and His Law. We are EQUAL in dignity to men as we are ALL created in God's image and likeness. Christianity elevates women, holistically. The greatest saint in Heaven (apropos for this All Saints Day) is a woman. The greatest, most perfect creature ever created, who reigns over all other creatures, is Mary. Catholicism = women's dignity. (You should read JPII's "feminine genius" writings.)<br /><br />We are not chattel or property, and we are not merely vaginas and uteruses, either. We are something much higher, much more transcendent, than both those (impoverished) extremes. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-84440192936516306712012-11-01T17:38:36.000-07:002012-11-01T17:38:36.000-07:00Well, one caveat, maybe? I do think motherhood is ...Well, one caveat, maybe? I do think motherhood is a beautiful, noble calling, and that family is the reason that economy and the marketplace even exist. So, if my daughter aspires to be a wife and mother exclusively (with a college degree, as mothers are the primary teachers of the next generation, and also one never knows what the future holds and she needs to be able to support herself), I would certainly be find with that. :)Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-12300096655278624152012-11-01T17:36:57.393-07:002012-11-01T17:36:57.393-07:00Leila,
I don't see myself as a victim. But t...Leila, <br /><br />I don't see myself as a victim. But that's not something I boast because its not something I did myself, I'm actually just really fortunate to have lived a sheltered life. <br /><br />I don't need to think that women are pathetic to acknowledge that women's equality is brand spanking new in the scheme of human existence. That women being admitted into the top tuniversities, and being able to own property, and make decisions without permission of her father or husband is only decades old. That sexual assault, and fear of being assaulting plagues our young women. And that it is still difficult for a woman who is a mother and a wife, not to be defined by her relationships. And that while remarkable progress has been made sexism, albeit more subtle than the past exists and is so much apart of our society. <br /><br />~CSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-69135951198870221102012-11-01T17:35:15.366-07:002012-11-01T17:35:15.366-07:00CS, we all agree!! Group hug!!!CS, we all agree!! Group hug!!!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-10016587162887603862012-11-01T17:22:44.211-07:002012-11-01T17:22:44.211-07:00Ladies,
If no one is suggesting that we raise wo...Ladies, <br /><br />If no one is suggesting that we raise women to aspire to be housewives, or that child caregiving should be a female specific role, I dare say we are not disagreeing on anything. <br /><br />We should raise men and women to develop themselves and their interests and learn how to take care of themselves both financially and otherwise. When they reach adulthood, if they marry, they should work together with their spouse to make sure themselves, their children, their individual goals and financial interests are looked after. So long as one parent doesn't believe any one of these responsibilities is beneath them,and they share the responsibilities, it doesnt matter how they see fit to divide them up. <br /><br />~CSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-71925194797743084502012-11-01T16:44:19.588-07:002012-11-01T16:44:19.588-07:00Gwen, you question on the poor assumes that Democr...Gwen, you question on the poor assumes that Democrat policies help the poor more than Republican policies do. I do not hold that assumption. I fully believe that Democrat policies harm the poor and have harmed them (and kept them down and dependent) for many decades. So, can you see how it would seem quite moral for me to vote for policies that I believe help the poor much more than what we've been getting from the Democrats? I get that you think a social welfare state is lifting people out of poverty, but you need to get that I believe exactly the opposite. If you can understand that point, then perhaps my stance will not seem so confusing.<br /><br />There was a commenter (Noel) on the latest post that had some interesting thoughts on Democrat vs Republican poverty policies, and I'm excerpting some of it here:<br /><br /><i>Flying Goose, whence your image of Republicans, Romney or Ryan as having "a bias against the poorest and most vulnerable in society?"<br /><br />Upon logical analysis you will find that the facts shatter this myth. <br /><br />1. As individuals, Republicans give more of their own money to aid the poor than do Democrats; the same is even more manifestly so when conservatives are compared with liberals. <br />2. Romney and Ryan give more of their own money to aid the poor than have Obama and Biden.<br />3. Republican policies - specifically conservative ideals - have lifted more people out of poverty whereas Democrat party policies have created poverty for more individuals and distributed its deliterious effects thorughout society. As Ryan recently said, "in the democrats' war against poverty, poverty is winning."<br /><br />Thoughtful and dispassionate analysis of policies reveal that actual outcomes, not intentions, should inform and guide policy-making. </i><br /><br />That is the biggest difference as I see it: Democrat policies always sound good and compassionate, but they never deliver, and in fact make things worse. For an analogy, I'd rather go to the heart surgeon who is competent and non-effusive than the heart surgeon who gushes with compassion over my situation, but butchers me instead of fixing me. Wouldn't you? <br /><br /><br />Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-50104181358249433742012-11-01T10:47:05.057-07:002012-11-01T10:47:05.057-07:00Wow, did the earth just shake a little? For the fi...<i>Wow, did the earth just shake a little? For the first time ever, I'm completely on board with Nubby's last two comments</i><br /><br />Way to wise up! Kidding<br /><br /><i> so if a candidate states a pro-life stance but then does nothing to improve the situation for poor, homeless children it seems to me not much evil has really been mitigated.</i><br /><br />In this hypothetical, I'm thinking if the candidate is truly pro-life then his policies will include helping poor homeless children. When one is pro-life, it typically includes all human life.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-53442786111544895692012-11-01T10:43:23.706-07:002012-11-01T10:43:23.706-07:00I lied! I do have another way to say it. Haha! :...I lied! I do have another way to say it. Haha! :) <br /><br />You said, "so if a candidate states a pro-life stance but then does nothing to improve the situation for poor, homeless children it seems to me not much evil has really been mitigated."<br /><br />First of all, I don't believe there is ever a candidate whose stance is to "do nothing to improve the situation for poor, homeless children" so that's moot. You may not agree with Republicans' policies, but that doesn't mean we, or those running for office, want to "do nothing."<br /><br />Secondly, "homelessness" is not an inherent evil. So yes, even a pro-life candidate who (hypothetically) DOESN'T do anything to help the poor, IS mitigating evil because at least he does not advocate for killing (which is definitely an inherent evil!). Hope that makes sense.Nicole Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115556585264141565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-89338922405693180242012-11-01T10:38:20.277-07:002012-11-01T10:38:20.277-07:00Gwen, it's been mentioned here a zillion times...Gwen, it's been mentioned here a zillion times before, but LIFE is a non-negotiable. Policies about how to help the poor are just that - policies. They are things the Church says we are able to disagree on. So yes...when it comes to voting, LIFE is first. Always. Because if we're killing people, then it doesn't really matter how we help them when they're homeless. I'm not really sure how else to say it. Nicole Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115556585264141565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-11490323697509115812012-11-01T10:07:55.960-07:002012-11-01T10:07:55.960-07:00Wow, did the earth just shake a little? For the fi...Wow, did the earth just shake a little? For the first time ever, I'm completely on board with Nubby's last two comments.Miss Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503676176409924845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-3682278953751099692012-11-01T09:26:06.415-07:002012-11-01T09:26:06.415-07:00I suspect for lower income people that specific ex... <i>I suspect for lower income people that specific expectation is not always there or certainly not discussed/encouraged.</i><br /><br />It may not be expected, but it is <i> possible </i>. And in this day and age, where college classes are offered off-campus and online, college really is much more accessible and expected.<br /><br />There are loans to help with the cost. I put myself through on loans, as did many women here, I suspect. <br /><br />Also, I can't stress enough the importance that college students should talk often to a student counselor regarding job opportunities after they graduate. <br /><br />They should be counselled on 1) which fields are most lucrative 2) where the jobs will be available 3) what it takes to find internships or entry level positions in the capacity of their discipline.<br /><br />A beautiful thing about being a woman in modern American is the sheer possibilities for education and employment.<br />Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-61835539043023647242012-11-01T09:18:56.769-07:002012-11-01T09:18:56.769-07:00CS- I will tell you straight up, a very lucrative ...CS- I will tell you straight up, a very lucrative career discipline for a woman is engineering. Right now, specifically mechanical, civil, chemical, aeronautical and paper engineering are where it's at. <br />Starting salary is usually $55,000 to $66,000. <i>Opportunities and benefits abound</i> for quick promotional and salary advancement. <br /><br />Within 5 to 7 years on the job, a woman could easily be near a six figure salary, depending on the field and program. Ten years into it, she'll likely have had a couple promotions and will be making at least $100,000 full time, including bonus money and profit sharing. Easily.<br /><br />A woman is the minority in the engineering field (1 in 10 in mechanical engineering, I believe is still true) and are *well taken care of* in terms of material wealth and opportunities to make this a life long satisfying career. <br />These fields are constantly looking to fill slots with female workers, as there is a shortage of them.<br /><br />So, CS, if you've got the capacity for math and applied sciences, you're already ten steps ahead of the rest of America, especially women, right? Because "the man" has held women back from studying math and science all these years (I joke).<br /><br />It's a great discipline for a woman.<br /><br />And when Mr Right comes around, you'll most likely have the opportunity to stay home with the kids (if you choose) or return either full or part time to a career that will always be in high demand for a woman. At this time, the Midwest is in need of great talent, esp in mechanical and chemical engineering, as a lot of talent has left the area in search of other jobs since 2008.<br />Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-82768725718810969082012-11-01T09:07:14.463-07:002012-11-01T09:07:14.463-07:00In brief, Nicole-no, I am most definitely not sugg...In brief, Nicole-no, I am most definitely not suggesting homeless children should have been aborted; rather, I find it difficult to wrap my mind around the idea that although the Catholic church practices advocating for life in all ways-anti-abortion and charity/services to help the poor, when it comes time to vote the only issue seems to be abortion....so if a candidate states a pro-life stance but then does nothing to improve the situation for poor, homeless children it seems to me not much evil has really been mitigated.<br /><br />Leila, I do know Gallup, NM very well and am familiar with some of the Catholic outreach programs in that area though I don't know your friend.<br /><br />The motherhood/workforce conversation certainly is interesting. I tend to think the disparity in this country falls across class/income lines pretty steeply (in addition to ethnicity); while middle/upper class folks grow up with the expectation that they will go to college, I suspect for lower income people that specific expectation is not always there or certainly not discussed/encouraged.<br /><br />Miss Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503676176409924845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-25994721378797953322012-11-01T08:51:31.589-07:002012-11-01T08:51:31.589-07:00So-here's my answer to how being divorced mixe...So-here's my answer to how being divorced mixes with being Catholic...(On a side note I was confirmed the same day I moved out of my exhusband's house. It was also Mother's Day.)<br /><br />So far there is no conflict. My husband cheated. We had differing views of what a marriage actually is. If he had stopped seeing his current fiancee, and committed to counseling and being faithful, I would have stayed. He refused. I moved out. I was not going to live with him while I knew he was being unfaithful. <br /><br />We have been civilly divorced for 1 year. After 11 years of marriage. According to the Catholic Church we are still married. As the Church prefers to assume the validity of the sacrament. I have begun the process of receiving a Declaration of Nullity. Which, given some circumstances around my husband's childhood, may be relatively quick.<br /><br />At this time there is no conflict, because I am chaste and celibate. I am not seeing anyone at this time. As far as I know, the only conflict that would arise would be if I were physically involved with a man, since sacramentally I am still married, and thus, it would be considered adultery. <br /><br />The choice to remain chaste and celibate hasn't been easy, when most people in my social circle think that "getting some" would solve most of my problems. When, really in retrospect, it was the "getting some" that caused a lot of them. Like I said in the beginning, there is no conflict between my faith and my marital status. I've done things the other way....now I plan on doing them the right way. Which means abstaining until I am married (God willing). The saddest part for me is that due to wrong thinking in the past, I can't have any more children. And THAT is only thing I would do over. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-52229845316149802992012-11-01T08:44:08.101-07:002012-11-01T08:44:08.101-07:00So-here's my answer to how being divorced mixe...So-here's my answer to how being divorced mixes with being Catholic...(On a side note I was confirmed the same day I moved out of my exhusband's house. It was also Mother's Day.)<br /><br />So far there is no conflict. My husband cheated. We had differing views of what a marriage actually is. If he had stopped seeing his current fiancee, and committed to counseling and being faithful, I would have stayed. He refused. I moved out. I was not going to live with him while I knew he was being unfaithful. <br /><br />We have been civilly divorced for 1 year. After 11 years of marriage. According to the Catholic Church we are still married. As the Church prefers to assume the validity of the sacrament. I have begun the process of receiving a Declaration of Nullity. Which, given some circumstances around my husband's childhood, may be relatively quick.<br /><br />At this time there is no conflict, because I am chaste and celibate. I am not seeing anyone at this time. As far as I know, the only conflict that would arise would be if I were physically involved with a man, since sacramentally I am still married, and thus, it would be considered adultery. <br /><br />The choice to remain chaste and celibate hasn't been easy, when most people in my social circle think that "getting some" would solve most of my problems. When, really in retrospect, it was the "getting some" that caused a lot of them. Like I said in the beginning, there is no conflict between my faith and my marital status. I've done things the other way....now I plan on doing them the right way. Which means abstaining until I am married (God willing). The saddest part for me is that due to wrong thinking in the past, I can't have any more children. And THAT is only thing I would do over. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-36013856949793657832012-10-31T22:52:14.118-07:002012-10-31T22:52:14.118-07:00By the way, Angela, you rock. I look forward to yo...By the way, Angela, you rock. I look forward to your answer to Johanne's question. <br /><br />Johanne, FYI, we have many divorced Catholic women in my local Catholic "bubble". They are wonderful women, some of my best friends. Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-73150761933204964082012-10-31T22:49:08.349-07:002012-10-31T22:49:08.349-07:00I couldn't say it better than Nicole and Nubby...I couldn't say it better than Nicole and Nubby. I agree with them.<br /><br />I was raised with an expectation that I would go to a private university (top 25 school) and the sky was the limit for me. I graduated college <i>summa cum laude</i> and spent a couple of weeks in grad school with an assistantship when I realized that I would rather be closer to my fiance, get a job in corporate America (which was pleasant enough, but I did not really want to be there) and get ready for my wedding. My dad wanted me to be a doctor, I am sure, but that was not what I wanted. See, there's the part that I love about being a woman: I wanted to be a wife and mother more than I wanted a career. I had decided that any man that wanted to marry me had better understand that up front. The point here being that I always felt that as a woman, I had a <i>choice</i> to do what I wanted in that regard, whereas it always made me sad that men did not legitimately have that choice. I felt much freer than the young men around me, much luckier. The opposite of a victim. Not saying any of the men wanted to stay home, but the point was they did not have that option. <br /><br />My sister was the opposite, and wanted to work since the time she was 15 (and did). She also got her degree (business) from a private university (she went west coast, I went east coast). Never once was it even a consideration in my family that we would not attend a university and get our degree. (Now, I am not saying that everyone needs to go to college, but for my family, it was not optional not to go, just like it was not optional not to go to mass on Sundays. Also, it is not optional for my kids -- they are expected to get at least a bachelor's degree.)<br /><br />I have 12 cousins on my Catholic side, many of them girls and all from an Arab background. All of my cousins, even the immigrants, got four-year-university degrees, and several went further. Some are stay-at-home moms, and some are very much happily in the workforce. Some did both at one time or another. <br /><br />I come from a conservative Republican household. This is not unusual in the least in my conservative circles. So, I don't know who the folks are that you've met in society where the expectation is that women will stay home, uneducated, with babies, or that society pressures them to do so. I have found exactly the opposite, that society now tends to devalue the role of motherhood and seems to imply that actively choosing to be a wife and stay-at-home mother is a waste of life, or at the very least, much lesser than being a woman who puts her career first. <br /><br />I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it is not society which puts out those expectations of women, but that it comes as a liberal talking point, from leftist college professors and/or those in the women's studies department? The left loves to caricature both society and conservatives. <br /><br />What you describe is so far from my experience as a conservative women that it leaves me just shaking my head.<br /><br />Why do you suppose our experiences are so divergent? Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.com