tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post233863280905963501..comments2024-03-21T04:02:46.799-07:00Comments on Little Catholic Bubble: Archbishop Dolan's warning letter to ObamaLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comBlogger245125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-64171217898503546632011-09-30T10:00:59.969-07:002011-09-30T10:00:59.969-07:00I am sometimes dismayed at the tone of some of the...I am sometimes dismayed at the tone of some of these discussions, but as someone who previously thought the pro-gay marriage position was a no-brainer, I find Leila's arguments increasingly compelling.Nicholashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10142475137957516460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-4071379336563536372011-09-28T15:41:13.298-07:002011-09-28T15:41:13.298-07:00I have Miller's book.I have Miller's book.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-60500602842567258052011-09-28T14:13:16.142-07:002011-09-28T14:13:16.142-07:00Mary, I am actually dying to read Moral Darwinism,...Mary, I am actually dying to read <i>Moral Darwinism</i>, and I can't even find the time to do that yet…. Maybe Nubby or another science minded reader can read it and evaluate?Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-68205465420234092352011-09-28T11:57:00.618-07:002011-09-28T11:57:00.618-07:00What We Cant Not Know is in my library network...I...What We Cant Not Know is in my library network...I will order it today!<br /><br />Will you read, "Finding Darwin's God"? <br />MLmaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-35315723977327082702011-09-28T10:33:56.791-07:002011-09-28T10:33:56.791-07:00Suburban mom, that was so well said! That is why I...Suburban mom, <i>that</i> was so well said! That is why I am all about clarity, and why I think those on the other side love to fuzzy the meanings of words. It's the Tower of Babel syndrome.<br /><br />But words have MEANING and they are POWERFUL. And they can be used to manipulate and push agendas when they are misused (purposefully). I wrote about that here, with regard to the topic of gay "marriage" and the manipulation of language:<br /><br />http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2010/06/while-were-at-it.htmlLeila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-23335177457075399242011-09-28T10:27:51.261-07:002011-09-28T10:27:51.261-07:00Alan you said this,
Words are powerful at times.
...Alan you said this,<br /><br /><i>Words are powerful at times.</i><br /><br />and this,<br /><br /><i>I wish that occasionally someone would look at my words and understand their meaning. They really do make sense occasionally.</i><br /><br />I find this interesting. You talk about words and their meanings and how we don't understand their meaning. Yet it is you that wants to change the meaning of words or expand the definition of words. But then these words become meaningless so how are we supposed to understand what you mean?<br />Marriage is a word that you want to change the meaning of. And then those of us that don't agree with changing this definition can now be considered homophobic because now you are going to expand THAT definition to mean anyone who thinks the word marriage should still only mean the union of one man and one woman. <br /><br />I noticed you referred to your SO as your "husband." How does he refer to you? Are you his "husband?" or are you the "wife."<br />Do we need to expand the definition of husband and wife also? Should we also expand the definition of man and woman? So that if you decide you should be called the wife of your marriage and those of us disagree with changing that definition, does that also mean we're hateful bigots or homophobic?<br /><br />So yes, words have meaning and if we change those meanings then they become meaningless and we will never understand each other.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16574404020737651409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-38569845076789866222011-09-28T08:37:12.351-07:002011-09-28T08:37:12.351-07:00Actually this is a question for everybody. "D...<i>Actually this is a question for everybody. "Do you all think that MOST gays are seeking marriage, because secretly they want to get rid of marriage and make a world where wild sex and orgies with everyone and every age is accepted and normal?" This is quite an allegation. </i><br /><br />I believe that gays seek marriage because they want to hear from the world that their sin is legitimized. Homosexual acts have been seen as deviant and shameful by pretty much everyone up till recently (and by the orthodox of every major world religion … this is not a "Catholic" thing). It is hard on those who want to be able to have these sex acts without any shame. It's why women who have abortions often support and encourage others to have them. You surround yourself with those who have done it, or who approve it, and in this way, you assuage your conscience and say that it is certainly morally acceptable, since so many people are doing it or approve of you doing it.<br /><br />Please get on the list of "What We Can't Not Know". It's important to know how the conscience works. But essentially, it's important to have approval for sinful acts. Thus, the need (truly a need, from the standpoint of conscience) to have society say "it's okay, and even holy" to do things that are against the moral law.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-26535149706248904352011-09-28T06:17:39.530-07:002011-09-28T06:17:39.530-07:00I know two devoutly Catholic guys who went to &quo...<i>I know two devoutly Catholic guys who went to "protest against the faggots" during the Saint Patrick Day's parade that had a gay contingent, and lots of people hold organized rallies to protest against gay marriage at the statehouse. Not the same as a parade I guess, but they do make fun of what they believe.</i><br /><br /><br />If this is true, and that was their exact words and actions above, then they are most probably in grave sin and should go to Confession before receiving the Eucharist. The Church doesn't teach nor endorse hateful shows of display.<br /><br /><br />As far as the "devout" label goes, it's usually a term to generate some kind of status. Myself, I'm not a fan of that label.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-15153888327445148732011-09-28T05:25:08.282-07:002011-09-28T05:25:08.282-07:00Leila,
"No one would accept homosexual "...Leila, <br />"No one would accept homosexual "marriage" if we saw what much of the movement is doing and how they really feel. "<br /><br />Do you think you know how most gays feel? Actually this is a question for everybody. "Do you all think that MOST gays are seeking marriage, because secretly they want to get rid of marriage and make a world where wild sex and orgies with everyone and every age is accepted and normal?" This is quite an allegation.maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-18448268827313500612011-09-28T05:19:48.948-07:002011-09-28T05:19:48.948-07:00Manda,
I agree that the mocking Christianity part ...Manda,<br />I agree that the mocking Christianity part was terrible, but lots of folks around here that are not gay mock it openly. I have an acquaintance who collects rude nun stuff that mocks nuns. <br /><br />Also, you said, "But we don't go holding parades where we openly mock and make fun of what they believe because it's truly hateful and disrespectful. " I know two devoutly Catholic guys who went to "protest against the faggots" during the Saint Patrick Day's parade that had a gay contingent, and lots of people hold organized rallies to protest against gay marriage at the statehouse. Not the same as a parade I guess, but they do make fun of what they believe.maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-51640040577944937222011-09-27T15:26:36.088-07:002011-09-27T15:26:36.088-07:00Mary,
The most evil part of the gay parade (from ...Mary,<br /><br />The most evil part of the gay parade (from my perspective) is that they were being disrespectful towards Christ and the cross. They made fun of and openly mocked Christians and God. Of course, I don't want to see anyone naked in public. Have a little respect for yourself. But the most offensive part was the display of sacrilege.<br /><br />We may disagree strongly with gays on matters like gay marriage and, in some cases, a belief in God. But we don't go holding parades where we openly mock and make fun of what they believe because it's truly hateful and disrespectful.Mandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01347616073655350336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-71019722825489117852011-09-27T13:56:28.268-07:002011-09-27T13:56:28.268-07:00One gay guy I know thinks that sort of thing is mo...One gay guy I know thinks that sort of thing is morally wrong, as he believes in fidelity. He is also conservative about other things.maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-26894319283074759772011-09-27T09:56:37.196-07:002011-09-27T09:56:37.196-07:00Mary, they are clamoring for marriage in order to ...Mary, they are clamoring for marriage in order to get the world to say that what they do is "good". They didn't clamor for marriage until the last strategy (we don't need "a piece of paper" to say that we can live our lives like this!) didn't work well. I really hope you will put your name on the list to receive the "What We Can't Not Know" book. Professor B talks about the "two scripts" in the push to make things look moral that once were considered abominable (abortion, gay sex, etc). There is a public script and a private one. Not all gay people like the stuff that goes on in San Fran, but it's not necessarily condemned. And the press knows to show the "public script" to the nation, because they would not want to see the "private" one. No one would accept homosexual "marriage" if we saw what much of the movement is doing and how they really feel. <br /><br />Ask people who are pro-gay marriage, or even just gay, if they think that that stuff in San Fran is evil and wrong. Will they say that? They may not like it, and it may make them uncomfortable, but will they condemn it as wrong?Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-38794812849802904342011-09-27T06:55:11.416-07:002011-09-27T06:55:11.416-07:00Leila,
By linking to the San Fran stuff, I assume ...Leila,<br />By linking to the San Fran stuff, I assume you were trying to show that the gay lifestyle is deviant and evil. But, my link shows that the heterosexual lifestyle can be just as deviant. I guess I would think differently if ALL gays were living that way, but I find that hard to believe, since they are clamoring for marriage!maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-36120744490369467882011-09-27T06:52:55.038-07:002011-09-27T06:52:55.038-07:00Alan,
I have to say, although I am on the fence ab...Alan,<br />I have to say, although I am on the fence about gay marriage, I do think JoAnna's question about polygamy is a good one. How do you answer it?maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-49310964308859915702011-09-26T22:01:08.397-07:002011-09-26T22:01:08.397-07:00Mary, by the way, you won't get an argument fr...Mary, by the way, you won't get an argument from any Catholic here that the vile and disgusting Spring Break stuff is horrid, rotten, ugly sin. We condemn that, too.Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-37368059496891591442011-09-26T21:42:52.771-07:002011-09-26T21:42:52.771-07:00Just jumping in after getting caught up! Good conv...Just jumping in after getting caught up! Good conversation, all of you!<br /><br />Okay, alan, this bears repeating: The moral law (natural law) is not specific to Catholics. It is universal. That is why the orthodox of all major world religions have taught the sinfulness of homosexual acts. Natural law, known by the light of reason. Yes, Catholics have the natural law established in the deposit of faith, but it's still known by the rest of the world, too. It's not a mystery of the Catholic Faith.<br /><br />Now, if we started forcing you to believe in Mary, Mother of God, or the Trinity, or the Incarnation, or the Sacramental system, then yes... you could accuse us of forcing you to live under Catholic doctrine. But we are doing no such thing. The moral law needs no divine revelation to be known and understood, which is why it's called the natural law and why it's been taught by peoples everywhere in every era and in every creed.<br /><br />Blessings!Leila@LittleCatholicBubblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09357573787143230160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-64944433844697346772011-09-26T20:20:16.443-07:002011-09-26T20:20:16.443-07:00Attempt at humor? I think you understood I was say...<i>Attempt at humor? I think you understood I was saying my marriage is the same as yours. Sorry if I was not specific enough.</i><br /><br />You and your partner have the ability to have sexual intercourse -- that is, one of you has a penis and the other has a vagina? And the two of you have the capability (note that capability =/= proven ability) to naturally reproduce without involving a third party? If not, then no, your "marriage" is nothing like mine because you lack some pretty essential elements. <br /><br /><i>I do know right from wrong. There is nothing wrong with being gay.</i> <br /><br />Hang on a sec, whatever happened to "Your facts are not facts, they are opinions"? Why are your facts facts, but mine are not? Isn't it merely your opinion that there is nothing wrong with being gay? What makes your opinion superior to mine?<br /><br /><i>There is nothing wrong with homosexual relations. You saying they are wrong is an opinion.</i> <br /><br />And you saying that they are not wrong is also an opinion. How do we know who is right?<br /><br /><i>I think again you are intelligent enough to know the difference between homosexuality and murder. You implying the might even be the same is like me saying you being catholic is the same as being a member of al queda.</i><br /><br />I think you're intelligent to know that I wasn't comparing the two. I was asking how we can possibly condemn ANYTHING if, as you claim, it's impossible to know right from wrong until we die.<br /><br /><i>So now there are others jumping on the lets keep asking Alan hair splitting questions.</i><br /><br />Problem is, they're not hair-splitting. They have key moral distinctions. <br /><br /><i>Joanna I hope you have a nice life.</i><br /><br />Right back at you.<br /><br /><i>I am not a practicing catholic. I do not have to abide by your morals, doctrine or definition of sin.</i><br /><br />No, you don't. It's called free will and it's one of God's greatest gifts to us. <br /><br /><i>I do not now, nor will I ever disagree with your right practice your religion. I do not hate you because of it. I am not intolerant of your beliefs.</i><br /><br />Great; does that mean you'll stand up to the Obama Administration et al who ARE trying to prevent me from practicing my religion? <br /><br /><i>I just don't agree that you get to decide how I live, whom I marry.</i><i>I don't live in the catholic world, I don't see why you expect me to live to their beliefs.</i><br /><br />I'm not the sole arbiter of that, but I do vote my beliefs, just as you do. And believe it or not, there are plenty secular reasons to oppose same-sex marriage, just as there are secular reasons to oppose abortion.<br /><br /><i>Again no answer or response needed. I wont reply. </i><br /><br />That's what you said last time. :) I'm replying anyway for the benefit of lurkers.JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-70973429711196501972011-09-26T20:19:48.102-07:002011-09-26T20:19:48.102-07:00Alan,
Sounds like and looks like a question to me...Alan,<br /><br /><i>Sounds like and looks like a question to me. Why do you have the moral authority to tell me my sins are wrong, but yours are ok?</i><br /><br />Where did I ever say that my sins are okay??? They're not, hence why I regularly patronize the confessional.<br /><br />Actually, I don't have any moral authority, but the Catholic Church does. Jesus Christ gave her that authority. I'm merely reiterating what She has taught for over 2,000 years.<br /><br /><i>Ah I think we need to look up the word facts and the word opinion. Your facts are not facts, they are opinions.</i><br /><br />And your facts are not facts, they are opinions. So, how do we know whose opinion is correct?<br /><br /><i>Why are they different? Again rhetorical, splitting hairs.</i><br /><br />You don't see the difference between being perfect all the time and striving for perfection on a daily basis? <br /><br />Alan, do you actually know anyone who is completely sinless, 24/7/365? I only know of one person and He ascended into Heaven circa 33 A.D. <br /><br />Do you apply the same standard to your elected officials? Do you insist that every single one must have an absolutely flawless and proven record -- no jaywalking, no parking tickets, etc. -- in order to make laws? Do you likewise insist the same of your police officers? That's a pretty high standard.<br /><br /><i>Again you of course are smart enough to realize that incest is not the same, polygamy is not the same, and etc, well that is not the same either. </i><br /><br />Actually, I don't see how it's much different. Who are you to tell <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7334649.stm" rel="nofollow">this couple</a> that they can't love each other? Or <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/12/us/12polygamy.html" rel="nofollow">this family</a>? After all, they're making the EXACT same arguments that you are -- they're all consenting adults who want to be committed until death. Why would you deny any of them what they want? How are their relationships different than yours?JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-50595819693832694932011-09-26T19:47:46.368-07:002011-09-26T19:47:46.368-07:00@Joanna,
I have my big gay marriage to the man I p...@Joanna,<br />I have my big gay marriage to the man I plan to die with. No different than you.<br /><br />I don't have a big gay marriage, so, not really.<br /><br />Attempt at humor? I think you understood I was saying my marriage is the same as yours. Sorry if I was not specific enough.<br /><br />Guess what, only god can judge me, and when I die he will.<br /><br />Absolutely.<br /><br />Finally something we agree on. Praise the lord.<br /><br />And I am fairly certain I will see you in heaven.<br /><br />I really, sincerely hope so.<br /><br />I don't doubt you do<br /><br />You can tell me all you want to come to a virtuous life, to love my husband more than myself by getting him to a virtous life, but in the end we don't know who is right or wrong.<br /><br />I disagree; I think it's possible to know right from wrong via objective truth. Otherwise, you could justify any sin. "Why can't I murder my grandmother? In the end we don't know who is right or wrong." <br /><br />I do know right from wrong. There is nothing wrong with being gay. There is nothing wrong with homosexual relations. You saying they are wrong is an opinion. I think again you are intelligent enough to know the difference between homosexuality and murder. You implying the might even be the same is like me saying you being catholic is the same as being a member of al queda.<br /><br />So now there are others jumping on the lets keep asking Alan hair splitting questions. If you care to read back on my other responses you might get a better idea of how I think and how I react to you.<br /><br />Joanna I hope you have a nice life. I choose not to continue this with you as I think you are purposely not even trying to understand what I am saying even if I say it directly, but here it is as simple as I can put it.<br /><br />I am not a practicing catholic. I do not have to abide by your morals, doctrine or definition of sin. I do not now, nor will I ever disagree with your right practice your religion. I do not hate you because of it. I am not intolerant of your beliefs. I just don't agree that you get to decide how I live, whom I marry. I don't live in the catholic world, I don't see why you expect me to live to their beliefs.<br /><br />Again no answer or response needed. I wont reply.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-20319197722997860012011-09-26T19:46:55.123-07:002011-09-26T19:46:55.123-07:00Absolutely. But expecting someone to be SINLESS 24...<i>Absolutely. But expecting someone to be SINLESS 24/7/365 and expecting someone to TRY to abstain from sin on a daily basis are two different things. You're expecting the former but Catholicism only requires the latter.- JoAnna<br />Why are they different? Again rhetorical, splitting hairs.-alan</i><br /><br /> <br /><br />Alan,<br /><br />There is a glaring difference between being sinless and striving for sinlessness. And JoAnna's point is correct, Catholics don't need to be sinless theologians in order to proclaim the truth of the faith.<br /><br />It's splitting hairs for you because even if one of us could claim sinlessness, it's a wasted argument because you don't believe in the authority of the Church nor in the freedom of reconciliation. <br /><br /><br />When JoAnna leaves the confessional booth, free and absolved from her sin, she is declared sinless at exactly that moment. If she then immediately posted here, sin-free, would you grant her more authority? No, it's a wasted argument.<br /><br />Further, it's silly to say that because someone isn't an expert that they cannot conceptualize or even teach truth, even though they themselves are imperfect. You don't need to be a gourmet chef to teach someone how to fry an egg. You don't need to be a professional wrestler to look stupid in a costume, either. Sad example, but I'm late to bed --- <br /><br />You get the point, I hope.Nubbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15972118374098863290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-78769155302295673242011-09-26T19:33:57.607-07:002011-09-26T19:33:57.607-07:00@Joanna
don't think I judge you.
This isn...@Joanna<br /> don't think I judge you.<br /><br />This isn't judging?<br /><br />And maybe all you sinning catholics should work on your sins before you start on others. You all say you sin, so until you cease sinning why is it acceptable for you to tell me to live a chaste life?<br /><br />Sure sounds like you're judging to me.<br /><br />Sounds like and looks like a question to me. Why do you have the moral authority to tell me my sins are wrong, but yours are ok?<br /><br />Now where we differ is this. You do not have a right to tell me how to live my life. You live yours the way you want (and yes on both sides it is all about want) and I shall do the same.<br /><br />I'm telling you the facts. How you choose to act accordingly is entirely up to you.<br /><br />Ah I think we need to look up the word facts and the word opinion. Your facts are not facts, they are opinions.<br /><br />If it is unrealistic of me to ecpect you to live without sin then it is unrealistic of you to expect me to.<br /><br />Absolutely. But expecting someone to be SINLESS 24/7/365 and expecting someone to TRY to abstain from sin on a daily basis are two different things. You're expecting the former but Catholicism only requires the latter.<br /><br />Why are they different? Again rhetorical, splitting hairs.<br /><br />But you think you can tell me too. I cannot marry whom I chose because according to you it is a sin. <br /><br />Yep, and I tell the same thing to father/daughter incest couples, polygamist couples, etc. <br /><br />Again you of course are smart enough to realize that incest is not the same, polygamy is not the same, and etc, well that is not the same either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-43614513083414202122011-09-26T15:57:21.277-07:002011-09-26T15:57:21.277-07:00Leila posted a link about the gay parade in San Fr...Leila posted a link about the gay parade in San Fran, and the promiscuous folk displaying their privates and mocking religious symbols etc. I used to live there for a year, and yes, much of what goes on as a display there is rather shocking, and I don't like it. But...I know at least one gay man who is rather appalled at that behavior. <br /><br />Try this: http://partydamage.com/index.html, I found after a five second search of "spring break". I find that equally shocking (albeit less overtly rude to Christianity). I think heterosexual immorality in the public square with regard to sex is equal to, if not greater than that of homosexuals. The fact that it is totally normal for thousands of young college students to head south for a week of drinking, nudity, drugs and sex, some of which is celebrated on television, raises my eyebrows.maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05613163382453563548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-26975371679394037982011-09-26T15:49:46.092-07:002011-09-26T15:49:46.092-07:00I don't think I judge you.
This isn't jud...<i>I don't think I judge you.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2011/09/archbishop-dolans-warning-letter-to.html?showComment=1317042891209#c3087395301386328160" rel="nofollow">This</a> isn't judging?<br /><br /><i>And maybe all you sinning catholics should work on your sins before you start on others. You all say you sin, so until you cease sinning why is it acceptable for you to tell me to live a chaste life?</i><br /><br />Sure sounds like you're judging to me.<br /><br /><i>Now where we differ is this. You do not have a right to tell me how to live my life. You live yours the way you want (and yes on both sides it is all about want) and I shall do the same.</i><br /><br />I'm telling you the facts. How you choose to act accordingly is entirely up to you.<br /><br /><i>I have my big gay marriage to the man I plan to die with. No different than you.</i><br /><br />I don't have a big gay marriage, so, not really.<br /><br /><i>If it is unrealistic of me to ecpect you to live without sin then it is unrealistic of you to expect me to.</i><br /><br />Absolutely. But expecting someone to be SINLESS 24/7/365 and expecting someone to TRY to abstain from sin on a daily basis are two different things. You're expecting the former but Catholicism only requires the latter.<br /><br /><i>But you think you can tell me too. I cannot marry whom I chose because according to you it is a sin. </i><br /><br />Yep, and I tell the same thing to father/daughter incest couples, polygamist couples, etc. <br /><br /><i>Guess what, only god can judge me, and when I die he will.</i><br /><br />Absolutely.<br /><br /><i>And I am fairly certain I will see you in heaven.</i><br /><br />I really, sincerely hope so.<br /><br /><i>You can tell me all you want to come to a virtuous life, to love my husband more than myself by getting him to a virtous life, but in the end we don't know who is right or wrong.</i><br /><br />I disagree; I think it's possible to know right from wrong via objective truth. Otherwise, you could justify any sin. "Why can't I murder my grandmother? In the end we don't know who is right or wrong."JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-240447238522390484.post-57308703927697258332011-09-26T15:34:09.283-07:002011-09-26T15:34:09.283-07:00LOL Joanna, what is higher than a phd.
I don't...LOL Joanna, what is higher than a phd.<br />I don't think I judge you. You have a right to believe what you believe, I hope no one here will say I have said anything but.<br />Now where we differ is this. You do not have a right to tell me how to live my life. You live yours the way you want (and yes on both sides it is all about want) and I shall do the same. I have my big gay marriage to the man I plan to die with. No different than you.<br /><br />If it is unrealistic of me to ecpect you to live without sin then it is unrealistic of you to expect me to. But you think you can tell me too. I cannot marry whom I chose because according to you it is a sin. Guess what, only god can judge me, and when I die he will. And I am fairly certain I will see you in heaven. You can tell me all you want to come to a virtuous life, to love my husband more than myself by getting him to a virtous life, but in the end we don't know who is right or wrong.<br /><br />Yeah maybe god exists, and god may be yours, or god may be mine. I don't know how to answer your questions the way you want them, I really don't. You don't read my answers. I can only answer them the way I do. My beliefs are not yours. I would love to find a way to coexist, but I fear that will never happen until you stop insisting I live your way. I am not asking you to do that. You can believe what you believe, you can teach your kids what you want about right and wrong. Nothing about my marriage is about you. NOTHING. I don't ask for your acceptance, I don't even really care about your tolerance. I would love it if when your children asked why I was holding hands with a man that the response would be something along the lines of "different people love in different ways. Our god tells us that is not how we are to live, but our god also tells us we are not to judge others." I don't see why that is so hard.<br /><br />I think I am done here. Leila has been a gracious host, many of you have been quite kind, and heck maybe opened my eyes some about right and wrong. But at the end of the day I realize you do not want to hear what I have to say. I never expected to change your minds about anything, I just hoped that I would get the opportunity to make you think. To let you know how the other half sees it. Guess that was niave of me. <br /><br />We don't all think alike, nor should we.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com